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Tim Cook Speaks Up

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Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#461

Post by davesque »

science636 wrote: post #361
GuiA wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you will possibly be downvoted, but not because your opinion dissents with the majority. There are plenty of dissenting opinions on HN who get upvoted to the top, as long as they're well argued and informed. You will be downvoted because your comment has no substance to it. The only claim you make is "we know that homosexuality is a destructive force in society", and it isn't backed up by any meaningful conversa…

Male-male homosexual intercourse significantly increases your chances of contracting HIV/AIDS. Is that destructive?

Sure, but the degree to which homosexuals are persecuted (and the manner in which this happens) do not match the actual risks resulting from HIV/AIDS.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#462

Post by benologist »

mkr-hn wrote: post #296
JeremyNT wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Had a Swedish guy (shop owner) living with another guy and they both had a bunch of kids. Described the other guy and kids as his "family." This is quite a stretch. As the father of a young child I have seen Frozen more times than I am proud to admit, and while it could be that the large man in the sauna is the shopkeeper's husband, he could just as easily be the shopkeeper's son, while the smaller woman in the sce…

A minor throwaway moment in the life of a minor character is a huge improvement over the status quo of complete absence just a handful of years ago. There were gay characters in media, but most of them were walking stereotypes.

I've also had the dubious pleasure of watching that movie dozens of times with my daughter, it looks a lot like that character is just his son?

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#463

Post by lotsofmangos »

prewett wrote: post #381
Arnor wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... They simply acknowledge that the roughly 4% of the population that identify with the LGBT community exists. It's a pretty far push from acknowledging existence to "pushing homosexuality on everyone." I'll leave as an exercise to the reader to identify the mental gymnastics required to come up with the phrase: "pushing homosexuality on everyone"

I'm not sure who "they" is talking about in this thread, so I might be a little off here, but it definitely goes beyond acknowledging existence. People have acknowledged homosexuality for thousands of years (that's why there is a word for it). What the LGBT community wants is acceptance that it is a acceptable form of sexual expression. I definitely feel like there is some amount of "pushing homosexuality on everyone…

If you don't like gay marriage, don't have one.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#464

Post by dreamweapon »

notjackma wrote: post #396
angersock wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich participated in a public system in an approved way at a political level, did so without letting his politics get in the way of his personal or professional life, and made functional programming ubiquitous. There's nothing wrong with what he did given that he didn't let that view (in the abstract) color his personal interactions. And, let us note, it's all speculation on this point as to what or why he did it, be…

> Tim Cook continued contracts with Foxconn with the sole goal of minimizing production costs by using underpaid overworked labor I'm going to upvote you for this. Just because Tim Cook is gay doesn't make him Mother Teresa. He seems quite happy in promoting brutal Victorian style work-houses because it's "over there". Out of sight, out of mind. He's quite the hypocrite. He's also no better or worse then the operatio…

Just because Tim Cook is gay doesn't make him Mother Teresa.

It's also completely irrelevant to the subject of Brendan Eich's support of bigoted TV ads. Which is why I found the arguments made by the poster above you to be not really interesting, or worth responding to.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#465

Post by scragg »

dwild wrote: post #301
scragg wrote: post #275

I am a white male married to a black female with 2 mixed kids living in Texas. While we haven't experienced much bigotry our way, it has happened. The first time I was filled with disbelief and shortly after rage while my wife (then gf) cried. Our lives would be different if we were born a generation ago. Thank you MLK and Tim Cook.

Have you experienced that only from older people? We can only hope that this kind of bigotry go away with new generations.

Older. Negative experiences with younger people were just ignorant and probably did not intend harm. Some older folks will say things with pure hate and complete disregard to our feelings. I understand when Cook mentions the empathy you gain when being a part of a minority. I get anxious when walking into a restaurant that I am unfamiliar with. I think to myself... are we are going to be welcome here, is someone going to say something, what should I do if that happens etc. I've never had these feelings the first 25 years of my life.

On the other hand, there were occasions complete strangers (usually older) have said very nice things to us in public. These positive experiences greatly out number the negative.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#466

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

cookiecaper wrote: post #427
Tloewald wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brendan Eich is entitled to his opinion, and a large not for profit is entitled not to want someone with that opinion as a figurehead. As for who has done more for what — web browsers were going to have a scripting language. Is Javascript so astoundingly good that we can only assume any alternative would have been worse?

>Brendan Eich is entitled to his opinion, and a large not for profit is entitled not to want someone with that opinion as a figurehead. Except Mozilla didn't make that choice. Eich was not fired or asked to resign. Mozilla made it clear they still wanted him. Eich voluntarily stepped down and excused himself from the community after it had shown its shallow, naive definition of tolerance. I don't blame him for not wa…

> its shallow, naive definition of tolerance

But if you believe that, that's a pretty intolerant view you have there.

The question of tolerance of intolerance isn't perhaps as simple as you make out. It's been well discussed without a clear answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#467

Post by mkr-hn »

benologist wrote: post #462
mkr-hn wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A minor throwaway moment in the life of a minor character is a huge improvement over the status quo of complete absence just a handful of years ago. There were gay characters in media, but most of them were walking stereotypes.

I've also had the dubious pleasure of watching that movie dozens of times with my daughter, it looks a lot like that character is just his son?

I haven't seen it.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#468

Post by yourad_io »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #413
cdr wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't overestimate the progressiveness of young men. Look at how terrible so many of the HN comments are whenever there's a submission relating in any way to women.

I feel there is a big difference between gay equality and what a lot of young men feel like is a shrill feminism that seems to be much more about axe grinding, political correctness, censorship, and entitlements than any sort of drive towards a true equality. After you've been called a potential rapist several times in an academic or workplace setting just for your gender, you stop sympathizing with the modern femini…

> After you've been called a potential rapist several times in an academic or workplace setting just for your gender, you stop sympathizing with the modern feminist movement.

So, there are some bad feminists around. [1] When people are absurd, feel free to 'absurd' right back at them (i.e. "Sure, I'm a potential rapist - as much as you are a potential murderer!").

"Dropping sympathy" for the feminist movement as a response a few bad feminists that you've encountered is not really justified, or rational.

> I think purposely conflating gay rights and feminism is more than a little disingenuous. LGBT movements empower both genders, feminism empowers only one.

I'm not following the reasoning here. Both movements are about equality; one focuses on gender, the other on sexual identity/orientation. They are very much two sides of the same coin (the humanEqualityCent).

[1] "Are You a Good Feminist or a Bad Feminist?" - Shane Killian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axuz3JlZIbk

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#469

Post by anonbanker »

arrrg wrote: post #433
Jedd wrote: post #20

I wonder how carefully crafted this line was: ... I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me. It seems a particularly odd thing to slip in, on so many levels.

Is it really so hard to believe that he might just be religious? Jesus Christ, atheists are the worst (as can be seen here in this thread). And I say that as an atheist …

Am I the only one that always finds it funny when athiests (myself included) use the name of a religious deity when making an exclamation?

That being said, it is really difficult for most people to get past the cognitive dissonance that comes from being mass-denied "salvation" by the followers of a religion (Islam, Christianity, Hinduism) for being a homosexual, and yet, still believing in the invisible man in the sky that supposedly dictated these edicts.

Disclosure: I'm LGBTQ, athiest, and will defend to the death the right for anyone to believe in things I do not.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#470

Post by unknownBits »

I am hetero, and I always asked myself: why all that fuzz about people being gay or anything else. I don't need to be proud to be gay or hetero or whatever, I just don't get it.. I have gay friends and never had anything against people with other sexuality, but I truly hate the Gay Pride in our country. I think it is pathetic to be proud of your sexual orientation and feeling a need to show that off.

This will definitely cost me some points, I know, not being gay and not promoting them is just dreadful.

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