Angular 2 Core • Hacker News Board

Re: Angular 2 Core

#151

Post by emilis_info » Sat, Oct 25, 2014, 5:37 PM UTC

rimantas wrote: post #110

emilis_info wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may not be moving on. Or it may take a very long time. Angular is that big already. Previously there was no the framework for web frontend development (like Rails for Ruby). From now on you will need convincing reasons to use anything else, even if it is clearly better. Moving on to something else will be much harder.

Is it big in production deployments or only in hiring managers wishes?

I would like to know an answer to that question.

On the other hand my wish is not to get into stupid arguments at my new job :)

Re: Angular 2 Core

#152

Post by zghst » Sat, Oct 25, 2014, 5:38 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #47

I'm quite disappointed by this presentation, I see only new syntax everywhere for approximately zero benefit. There is not even any mention to the Object.observe integration which would be the most exiting feature to improve Angular apps. Angular looks and feels now like a Java framework, with ugly decorators and bloated APIs, that's really sad...

Ever since reading Angular 2's goals, I put 2 and 2 together, the API was definitely going to have to change massively to accommodate ES6.

I'm sure they're using Object.observe it just wasn't mentioned in the presentation.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#153

Post by personZ » Sat, Oct 25, 2014, 5:41 PM UTC

watty wrote: post #128

personZ wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone at the inflection point of choosing a single-page framework, I find these "flamewars" incredibly useful. Further I find the notion that this is evidence of insecurity itself evidence of insecurity -- why feel threatened that people discuss alternatives and merits/detriments? When new language features of C# or other languages (e.g. Go) are brought up on here, inevitably those features and benefits will be…

Surely you don't really find "off topic" complaints an insecurity. This article is about Angular 2.0, I would expect to read about thoughts/pros/cons about Angular 2.0 when reading the comments. It's similar to reading comments on a Halo (Xbox) post on Reddit. Over half the comments are flame wars about PS4 > Xbox. There have been many "framework vs. framework" potss already on HN, let's keep the flamewars contained.

What is the scope of an on-topic pros and cons discussion, though? It seems that the relative comparison should include competitors, especially given how large of a change this apparently will be. For a current user of Angular it isn't a certainty that will make them a user of 2.0.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#154

Post by zghst » Sat, Oct 25, 2014, 5:42 PM UTC

marknutter wrote: post #78

It's sad to see a post on HN specifically devoted to Angular utterly devolve into framework flame wars. If the title were "Why Angular 2 will be better than React" I could understand, but this is just a sneak preview of features to come. Can we please just choose the tools we prefer and build stuff instead of nursing our insecurities about the choices we've made?

I don't think this is a flame war at all, I think people are pissed at all these breaking changes. I've seen them coming from miles away, I'm still a little distant from Angular until it's API modernizes and matures.

I think people like to mention React because every since it was publicized last year Facebook has had ES6 integration in mind. With Angular, 2's goals have been up for a long time but I don't think many people thought about how much the API would have to change to accommodate the new features.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#155

Post by Ronsenshi » Sat, Oct 25, 2014, 5:45 PM UTC

colinramsay wrote: post #38

emilis_info wrote: post #28

Guys, relax and stop whining. You are probably wrong about what is going to happen with Angular, because you underestimate how massive Angular has become. I recently began searching for a new JavaScript job. I don't like Angular at all and I am skipping all positions that mention it. I have to skip ~90% of all ads. Think of it – 90% of companies that are expanding their web development use Angular. So, even if this c…

Is this right? I can't believe for a millisecond that 90% of all new JS jobs relate to Angular, it's a horrible and overblown framework with a high barrier to entry. Were you looking at a particular subset of jobs, a particular industry or in a particular location?

90% is certainly high. But he's not that far from the truth. A lot of companies do expect anyone working with JS to know Angular... which is not good for me. I'm really not a fan of that framework.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#156

Post by rantanplan » Sat, Oct 25, 2014, 5:51 PM UTC

joshuacc wrote: post #141

rantanplan wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstood or I didn't express myself correctly. I don't want to underplay the importance of the front-end, or in general the interfaces and what that means for bringing value to a product. But however you spin it it's not the core technology. You could make the same point you made, by saying the same about the marketing/sales department. Yes, it's how you bring customers and without it you'll probably fail to…

That depends very much on what type of product you're building. I work on two "serious" enterprise products using Angular, and for one of them the "core technology" is evenly split between the Java backend and the Angular application, while for the other the Angular application is clearly the "core technology."

Indeed. I work in a similar kind of product. I was talking about the majority of cases though. There are even cases where the mobile app is the core and only technology.

Now what would be interesting questions though are: 1) How many people work in the backend and how many work in each of the respective front-ends.

2) Suppose that you had 2 front-end interfaces, angular(for the web) and an android app(it could be an iPhone app, it doesn't matter). How many backend devs would need to know or actively interact with the angular front-end and how many would need to interact with the android app.

In my case, none of the backend people(a lot) need to interact with the mobile codebase(2-people team for every mobile type), while all of us need to help or interact with the web front-end.

I see similar scenarios with most of the companies I interact or know about. The mobile team is almost always autonomous and can accomplish a lot with just a few people. While hords of people are thrown into the web frontend, even if it's not their primary specialty. Hence the need for fullstack developers. Why? Because the JS ecosystem sucks and we still don't have a real integrated solution. I hope that this will change, preferably before I retire.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#157

Post by joshkpeterson » Sat, Oct 25, 2014, 5:51 PM UTC

watty wrote: post #128

personZ wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone at the inflection point of choosing a single-page framework, I find these "flamewars" incredibly useful. Further I find the notion that this is evidence of insecurity itself evidence of insecurity -- why feel threatened that people discuss alternatives and merits/detriments? When new language features of C# or other languages (e.g. Go) are brought up on here, inevitably those features and benefits will be…

Surely you don't really find "off topic" complaints an insecurity. This article is about Angular 2.0, I would expect to read about thoughts/pros/cons about Angular 2.0 when reading the comments. It's similar to reading comments on a Halo (Xbox) post on Reddit. Over half the comments are flame wars about PS4 > Xbox. There have been many "framework vs. framework" potss already on HN, let's keep the flamewars contained.

No, sometimes you don't really know what something is without holding it up to a yardstick. Flamewars are annoying, but this isn't a flamewar.

Carry on.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#158

Post by mcbutterbunz » Sat, Oct 25, 2014, 5:53 PM UTC

zak_mc_kracken wrote: post #98

Even though this is still called "Angular", this new version has barely any resemblance with the previous one, it's really a totally new framework. It's a bit sad to think that all this knowledge I have of Angular 1 is now obsolete but I'm excited to dive into this new framework. If it's half revolutionary as Angular 1 was, it's going to be a pretty interesting time.

I have to agree. Will there be backwards compatibility? If not, upgrading to angular 2 is going to require so much work and we'll probably end up switching frameworks. This could end up like Python 2 & 3.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#159

Post by joshkpeterson » Sat, Oct 25, 2014, 5:53 PM UTC

omarelamri wrote: post #122

novaleaf wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typescript is ECMAScript6, with additional (typing) features. I'd venture it's ecmascript 6 being used, as Google suffers NIH syndrome too..

Yeah, it definitely is EcmaScript 6. They've added the "class" and "constructor" keywords. Typescript is very mush modeled after EcmaScript 6 anyways, so technically it can be both. But I'm sure it's EcmaScript6, because that's what Angular 2 is written in.

See the post about Google's AtScript that was on HN yesterday.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#160

Post by rantanplan » Sat, Oct 25, 2014, 5:55 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #140

rantanplan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are tons of javascript libraries that are out there And there you have your answer :) What the JS people don't seem to grasp is that I don't care how many libraries are out there. I care even less about the incompatibilities and the different release cycles of all those libraries. By now, I hope you understand that my interest in maintaining and integrating all those into a coherent system approaches zero. I…

Engineering is taking all the bits and pieces out there and choosing the right ones for the problem you're trying to solve with engineering. It's not just choosing those components, but doing all the work to figure out how they should work together to solve your problem and building the pieces that bring them all together. Using something that does all that for you is tantamount to outsourcing all the engineering wor…

You are in a different conversation.

Unless you're trying to tell me that people who build e.g. KDE with the Qt framework are plumbers and people who develop with Backbone.js are engineers. In which case I wouldn't want to engage in such a discussion.