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Angular 2 Core

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Re: Angular 2 Core

#71

Post by purpletoned »

Wintamute wrote: post #69

Every large opinionated framework is "overblown" (aka "scary") until you actually take the time to learn it and code a few large non-trivial projects with it. I've learnt more MVC frameworks than you can shake a stick at and Angular is hands down one of the best. Once you're comfortable with it you can fly and code things so quickly and cleanly, and it scales well into complex apps too. Angular is largely designed th…

We're not saying Angular's bad, just that React's approach is better :) I've tested both (and quite a few other MVVM libraries actually) before I came to this conclusion.

Of course, I gain nothing by someone choosing Angular over React or vice versa. I'm just sharing my experience and leaving them to make their own choice.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#72

Post by paulojreis »

joeevans1000 wrote: post #70

I think it's hilarious how javascript frameworks are beginning to resemble java frameworks. This new release is really starting to look like Spring, including annotations. The increasingly complex DI is also looking like Spring.

Yeah, in IT we tend to go full circle. Or full retard. :)

Re: Angular 2 Core

#73

Post by ggregoire »

joeevans1000 wrote: post #70

I think it's hilarious how javascript frameworks are beginning to resemble java frameworks. This new release is really starting to look like Spring, including annotations. The increasingly complex DI is also looking like Spring.

I fixed your sentence for you: "javascript frameworks are beginning to resemble serious frameworks".

I used a few of frameworks in my life and all of these have annotations. Symfony for example and even C#.NET (not with the @ syntax but with []).

About DI and singleton, this is also a classical design pattern used by a lot of frameworks and languages.

I dont know why you do a fixation about comparing JS and Java.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#74

Post by swalsh »

There have been so many binding frameworks, with a few varieties of approach. It has always been clear that it's "experimental". But it's been a few years now, and the mature(er) frameworks are focusing themselves.

This is a good thing! I'm glad they're learning, and willing to make it better. In my career I've gone from ASP -> PHP -> ASP.NET Web Forms -> ASP.NET MVC -> Angular/knockout/react. We're developers, if you can't flow with change you should move on to one of the more established engineering disciplines.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#75

Post by joeevans1000 »

skore wrote: post #36

To everybody trying to make this into a tech fight about Angular vs. React/whatever, I've been repeating this like a mantra and even mentioned it in a talk on javascript once[0]: You can argue about the minor details of the tech stack till you turn green and blue, but Angular wins because it succeeds in the only metric that really counts. jQuery: (for reference) 5,656 commits 7 branches 122 releases 199 contributors…

I totally agree on the community point. I was thinking just yesterday how it's strange that when I think of Angular, a single person doesn't come to mind. This is probably a good thing, along the lines of the new way in which protests are developing in a decentralized way, like in Hong Kong. Maybe the model of the BDFL is finally getting superseded by the crowdsourced platform, with all the warts of that latter process. The problem with the BDFL is that there's a lot of trust necessary in the person in charge.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#77

Post by nawitus »

Jgrubb wrote: post #50
colinramsay wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this right? I can't believe for a millisecond that 90% of all new JS jobs relate to Angular, it's a horrible and overblown framework with a high barrier to entry. Were you looking at a particular subset of jobs, a particular industry or in a particular location?

> it's a horrible and overblown framework with a high barrier to entry Listen, if I can figure it out and get lots and lots of work done with it, it's neither horrible nor overblown and the barrier of entry was there but I got over it. By all means, keep ignoring it, but drop the shtick where you know better than thousands and thousands of us out here building things with it.

>if I can figure it out and get lots and lots of work done with it, it's neither horrible nor overblown

That's a weird argument. Just because you think it's not horrible or overblown doesn't really mean much. That's just an opinion.

I've worked full-time with AnguarJS over a year, and I know it pretty well. It's easily better than jQuery spaghetti code, and probably better than most data-binding frameworks. It has lots of issues, though. From bad documentation and performance to the mess of $scope.$apply/digest loop and a lot of moderate design problems.

Anyway, the biggest problem is the boat. AngularJS is really trying to "eat" other libraries and actually doesn't try to be modular. A data-binding/MVC framework shouldn't invent it's own module system, and recently it's own programming language. Apparently Google is trying to kill of jQuery too and substitute their own system. And they want to reinvent everything as AngularJS modules instead of "plain" JavaScript code that can be used across multiple frameworks.

What I'd like to see in AngularJS 2 is a tiny core which does data-binding without $scope.$apply, is fast and modular and could be used with a wide range of other frameworks. What I don't want to do is start writing AngularJS modules with AtScript and using their forced(?) ES6 classes.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#78

Post by marknutter »

It's sad to see a post on HN specifically devoted to Angular utterly devolve into framework flame wars. If the title were "Why Angular 2 will be better than React" I could understand, but this is just a sneak preview of features to come. Can we please just choose the tools we prefer and build stuff instead of nursing our insecurities about the choices we've made?

Re: Angular 2 Core

#79

Post by trumbitta2 »

Wintamute wrote: post #69

Every large opinionated framework is "overblown" (aka "scary") until you actually take the time to learn it and code a few large non-trivial projects with it. I've learnt more MVC frameworks than you can shake a stick at and Angular is hands down one of the best. Once you're comfortable with it you can fly and code things so quickly and cleanly, and it scales well into complex apps too. Angular is largely designed th…

TBH, I'm both amazed by the power and simplicity of Angular && mad at how difficult and unpredictable is to unit test services that use promises and/or depend on other services.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#80

Post by purpletoned »

Bahamut wrote: post #66
purpletoned wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention, it's much simpler than Angular. You can get upto speed with React in 2 or 3 days. Once you make the shift to specifying single states for your interactions and letting React rebuild the DOM on changes, you'll never go back to anything else.

I disagree (about never going back) - I spent some time playing around with React (I authored https://github.com/wesleycho/angular-react ), and I found the lack of a framework for application development to be a massive void. Code organization and modularity is becoming an increasingly important problem with JS as more logic is happening in the client and more components need to be modular for fast changing requireme…

> Angular has a void with the lack of a useful enough eventing solution - $scope eventing ...

I've found that using a publish/subscribe system for communicating between components makes them more loosely coupled and modular. In most cases, the components I've written are naturally somewhat slightly coupled so I just pass around functions as props from parent to child components.

> HTML mixed in with JS via JSX is also an abomination ...

Totally agree. I use the default React.DOM elements instead. I find them more transparent and easy to read, and manipulation of these are much easier using the map, filter, folds etc.

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