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Angular 2 Core

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Re: Angular 2 Core

#61

Post by purpletoned »

rantanplan wrote: post #49
purpletoned wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tons of javascript libraries that are out there that offer the things you want. In most cases, they are more featureful and more stable than Angular's implementations. Router - Backbone's router, page.js etc Web service querying - simple jquery ajax calls or you could use breeze.js, pouchdb etc Unit testing - React has one built in, but you could use others too.

> There are tons of javascript libraries that are out there And there you have your answer :) What the JS people don't seem to grasp is that I don't care how many libraries are out there. I care even less about the incompatibilities and the different release cycles of all those libraries. By now, I hope you understand that my interest in maintaining and integrating all those into a coherent system approaches zero. I…

If you're using something like Angular, Ember or React, it's safe to assume that you'll be building a Single Page Application with the majority of code in Javascript. So evaluating libraries for stability, functionality etc is time well-spent, not wasted.

While it is true that there are far too many frameworks that come and go in JS land, you can find very stable, well-maintained and clean libraries too. For anything that's essential to your stack(DOM interaction, routing, UI elements etc), typically you'll find multiple well tested and stable libraries. Atleast, that has been my experience.

With well designed libraries, integration is rarely a problem. They are designed to be interoperable and don't make too many assumptions about things they aren't good at.

It takes a little bit of work upfront, but I find it's far better than relying on monolithic frameworks that tries to do everything under the sun(and usually fail).

Switch to React, I guarantee you that your front-end dev time(and overall) dev time will drop drastically to 20% :)

Re: Angular 2 Core

#62

Post by kuni-toko-tachi »

bsaul wrote: post #22
gasping wrote: post #17

Angular 1 developers should see this as an opportunity to abandon Angular and move on to React. React is by far and away the best the market has to offer right now. From my perspective client-side applications are a solved problem thanks to React.

Not sure what in react would replace all the other angularjs part not related to directives. How does react deal with routing, web service querying, unit testing, etc... It seems to me that the integrated approach of angular isn't answered by react.

ReactJS just focuses on creating DOM nodes, routing etc are up to you. This is a good thing! Because then you can choose whatever other frameworks you want for routing, rest, etc.

AngularJS does too much, and nearly all of that too much poorly.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#63

Post by Narretz »

dodyg wrote: post #52

This is what is shit with JavaScript frameworks, no respect to backward compatibility. Imagine if these kind of API churning happens in C++ or other languages.

Since when is C++ a framework?

Re: Angular 2 Core

#64

Post by bsaul »

tracker1 wrote: post #26
bsaul wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what in react would replace all the other angularjs part not related to directives. How does react deal with routing, web service querying, unit testing, etc... It seems to me that the integrated approach of angular isn't answered by react.

See: Flux .. I'm partial to the Yahoo implementation myself, which has a really good client-server story behind it. React would be the "View" system in the Flux workflow. You are correct that React alone won't replace Angular, but with other tools (Ampersand, Flux, etc) you can use the pieces that you want and put them together. It's the difference between a library and a framework.

Just looked at the flux presentation from facebook, and it seems to me that it's basically a set of best practice on how to wire your view actions to your controller's model and refresh. Having a single unidirectionnal "loop" model=>view=>action=>model... is something that i have been doing inside my angular controllers for a while...

Now react may help with the performances of refreshing the dom in that scenario, but so far i didn't encounter that issue myself.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#65

Post by rantanplan »

purpletoned wrote: post #61
rantanplan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are tons of javascript libraries that are out there And there you have your answer :) What the JS people don't seem to grasp is that I don't care how many libraries are out there. I care even less about the incompatibilities and the different release cycles of all those libraries. By now, I hope you understand that my interest in maintaining and integrating all those into a coherent system approaches zero. I…

If you're using something like Angular, Ember or React, it's safe to assume that you'll be building a Single Page Application with the majority of code in Javascript. So evaluating libraries for stability, functionality etc is time well-spent, not wasted. While it is true that there are far too many frameworks that come and go in JS land, you can find very stable, well-maintained and clean libraries too. For anything…

I had invested time in Angular. I don't think it was wasted time. If nothing else, it made me hate the JS world about 1% less.

For every well maintained JS "technology" there are 100 others that aren't and they occupy the same playground. Evaluating them takes more time than one might think and at the end of the day, what you choose carries a huge risk. Yes this also happens in other aspects/technologies, but with JS stuff the risk is almost always higher.

A word about monolithic systems; You give too much credit on what a JS framework does. It's just one job. Do you ascribe the same term to GTK or Qt for example?

To be honest, React seems decent. I don't necessarily disagree with you, you just touched... a nerve of mine :)

If I ever have to evaluate JS frameworks again, React will have its turn then.

Cheers

Re: Angular 2 Core

#66

Post by Bahamut »

purpletoned wrote: post #20
gasping wrote: post #17

Angular 1 developers should see this as an opportunity to abandon Angular and move on to React. React is by far and away the best the market has to offer right now. From my perspective client-side applications are a solved problem thanks to React.

Not to mention, it's much simpler than Angular. You can get upto speed with React in 2 or 3 days. Once you make the shift to specifying single states for your interactions and letting React rebuild the DOM on changes, you'll never go back to anything else.

I disagree (about never going back) - I spent some time playing around with React (I authored https://github.com/wesleycho/angular-react ), and I found the lack of a framework for application development to be a massive void. Code organization and modularity is becoming an increasingly important problem with JS as more logic is happening in the client and more components need to be modular for fast changing requirements. Neither Angular or Flux quite solves this, but Angular provides more useful tools for managing an application.

Angular has a void with the lack of a useful enough eventing solution - $scope eventing has specific use cases, but you don't want to use it as a general event bus, mainly due to performance. This is important for Angular since you don't want to couple modules together with hardcoded state keys that you may want to alter in different applications.

Flux does offer a way around the eventing problem at a lower level within React components, but on a higher level, there is no application level of control - you have to construct exactly the control you want, which while liberating, also is an easy way to create a hole in architecture when designing an application if you're not careful. Angular exposes that problem directly in many ways (for example handling transitions between two urls in the application), as well as forces thinking about module dependencies with dependency injection.

HTML mixed in with JS via JSX is also an abomination, that originally made me want to run far away from React when I first looked at it. I'm not a huge fan of it still, but it's not an extremely terrible thing as long as you keep higher level templates slim, which React forces you to do in order not to have huge chunks of HTML mixed in with complex JS...although I'm sure there are developers out there who do it anyway (just like there are plenty of Angular developers who will toss plenty of jQuery in an Angular controller).

Re: Angular 2 Core

#67

Post by mgkimsal »

kuni-toko-tachi wrote: post #59
Jgrubb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a horrible and overblown framework with a high barrier to entry Listen, if I can figure it out and get lots and lots of work done with it, it's neither horrible nor overblown and the barrier of entry was there but I got over it. By all means, keep ignoring it, but drop the shtick where you know better than thousands and thousands of us out here building things with it.

Hey pal, drop the chip on your shoulder. Just because AngularJS has wide adoption doesn't change the fact that it is an extremely poorly designed framework. I also refuse to consider AngularJS jobs. Many developers have had to suffer through bad frameworks like GWT because of industry trends. Those bruises are not badges of honor. ReactJS is a framework that is clearly better designed. Why waste time learning and suf…

... because jobs?

I'm in agreement with your point, but... if 'the market' wants angular... 'the market' is going to have a hell of a time dealing with a mess in a couple of years when many of the decision makers that mandated angular move on to something else and leave piles of mess behind for someone else to clean up.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#68

Post by swombat »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #16

Ouch, just spent this month learning Angular... And now 'RIP angular.module, controllers, $scope' etc. Does anyone have some idea about when this launches and when it can be sort of considered stable for building apps beyond mere prototyping? Curious about the timeframe :) Thanks

Looks like your learning is still valid for another couple years - this isn't being released any time soon, and in fact won't run in most of today's browsers.

Two years in internet-time is a long time! For all you know, civilisation as we know it will have ceased by then.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#69

Post by Wintamute »

Every large opinionated framework is "overblown" (aka "scary") until you actually take the time to learn it and code a few large non-trivial projects with it. I've learnt more MVC frameworks than you can shake a stick at and Angular is hands down one of the best. Once you're comfortable with it you can fly and code things so quickly and cleanly, and it scales well into complex apps too. Angular is largely designed the way it is to promote small, encapsulated, testable components. But if you're not practising TDD, or don't test your code at all, (which I suspect is the case for many of the framework's detractors) then it possibly is somewhat over architected - by all means pick a simpler framework, but don't knock it from a position of ignorance.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#70

Post by joeevans1000 »

I think it's hilarious how javascript frameworks are beginning to resemble java frameworks. This new release is really starting to look like Spring, including annotations. The increasingly complex DI is also looking like Spring.
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