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Calories in, calories out

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Re: Calories in, calories out

#201

Post by induscreep »

IndianAstronaut wrote: post #57
bluecalm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calorie counting technique is basically this: "You need to eat less, here is a nifty tool to help you to keep track and maybe make a bit motivated once you see all those numbers". That may work for some people but for vast majority it won't help at all. Overweight/obese people very often know they need to eat less, the problem is they can't do it. "Count calories and don't go over deficit" is basically like saying to…

Until there are effective ways to curb appetite, this problem will persist. Any overweight or obese person can tell you that your brain goes into autopilot mode till you get your food fix. There is instant regret, but that is after eating.

There was some research that showed that the brain goes into hunting mode _for protein_, and it gets satiated when enough protein is had.

But, today's sugary foods contain less protein than before, so we keep eating these foods until the quota of protein has been met. This is why probably the keto diet reduces appetite.

Re: Calories in, calories out

#202

Post by induscreep »

BSousa wrote: post #149
mirsadm wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not true though. You can easily reduce the amount of food you eat by changing what you eat. Try to eat a diet high in fat and low in carbs. You'll find it extremely difficult to over eat. Then try the opposite, high carb and low fat. In my experience it is easy to keep eating until you feel sick.

I wish people stopped saying this. I do well on a low carb diet, but seriously, I'll eat a pound of bacon (900 kcal) in one sitting if I don't stop myself. I can eat a pound of entrecot easily as well (960 kcal) and still stuff myself after (heck, I used to east 1/2 pount of entrecot + 2 pounds of spinach in a meal and still be hungry, and i'm 150 pounds 5'6) I won't even start with the very high-fat foods (butters,…

Have you tried high protein-low carb instead of high fat-low carb?

Re: Calories in, calories out

#203

Post by induscreep »

nl wrote: post #61

I find this discussion very weird. Of course calories in/calories out explains your weight loss/gain. I haven't seen a single study that shows anything except this. But of course that isn't the whole story. The big issue with using calorie restriction for weight loss is that it take significant self control for long periods of time (months). People take that as a moral judgement of people who don't lose weight: they…

Hmm but you can still lose weight by eating low satiety index foods, as long as a calorie deficit is present. This means eating smaller portions of these foods. It just takes more self control because the body "feels hungry" when in fact it isn't.

Re: Calories in, calories out

#204

Post by randlet »

kyllo wrote: post #189
randlet wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kyllo, you didn't say exactly how long you did SS for, but it's my understanding that gaining even 20lbs of muscle in 6 months is virtually impossible: "Under the best possible circumstances (perfect diet, training, supplementation, and recovery strategies) the average male body can manufacture between 0.25 and 0.5 pounds of dry muscle tissue per week"[1] For sure SS will get you stronger in an almost magical fashion…

Sure, but not all human tissue is either muscle fiber or fat. You gain other non-lipid mass in addition. Some of it is from increases in connective tissue. A tiny amount is from increased bone density. A large portion of it is from retaining more glycogen and water. Did you see the articles about Zach, one of Mark Rippetoe's trainees? Based on skinfold caliper measurements, he gained 78 lbs in 6 months, 46 lbs of whi…

I hadn't seen that yet so thanks for the link. Amazing gains by him!

Re: Calories in, calories out

#205

Post by isleyaardvark »

hueving wrote: post #92
beloch wrote: post #67

"I learned that it is really hard to accurately measure calories consumed, even if you are trying. " I'd just like to highlight this, because it is profoundly true. There are probably very few people who have the patience to log everything they eat, diet or no diet, unless they have some kind of payoff close at hand! Even if you do log everything you eat, it's still not easy. Here are just a few reasons why: 1. The b…

>Packaged food often does not have anywhere near the same calories as the label claims. Food manufacturers often aren't very precise and they have an incentive to underestimate. Source? If they aren't within 20% they can be shut down by the FDA. Not exactly something you would want to risk.

20% is a lot.

Re: Calories in, calories out

#206

Post by iopq »

kyllo wrote: post #189
randlet wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kyllo, you didn't say exactly how long you did SS for, but it's my understanding that gaining even 20lbs of muscle in 6 months is virtually impossible: "Under the best possible circumstances (perfect diet, training, supplementation, and recovery strategies) the average male body can manufacture between 0.25 and 0.5 pounds of dry muscle tissue per week"[1] For sure SS will get you stronger in an almost magical fashion…

Sure, but not all human tissue is either muscle fiber or fat. You gain other non-lipid mass in addition. Some of it is from increases in connective tissue. A tiny amount is from increased bone density. A large portion of it is from retaining more glycogen and water. Did you see the articles about Zach, one of Mark Rippetoe's trainees? Based on skinfold caliper measurements, he gained 78 lbs in 6 months, 46 lbs of whi…

there's also no way he's 21% body fat

calipers are just an approximate estimate of someone's body fat percentage, and in this case because of body fat distribution (all the fat is very evenly distributed) they're way off, by as much as 5%

Re: Calories in, calories out

#207

Post by iopq »

kyllo wrote: post #170
iopq wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did SS for 7 months, but the last few months my gains slowed. I gained some muscle and fat, but they changed the scale at the gym and I don't know how much weight I ACTUALLY gained because the old one was off by like 10 pounds and they changed it half way through so it had me confused. I probably gained 15 lbs, half of which being muscle. Didn't gain much more after that, even though I continued working out, nothin…

Yeah, that's expected. SS is a beginner program designed to be done for only 3-6 months. When your progress on your lifts stalls out, it's time to switch to a periodized intermediate program such as Texas Method[1], which will have you doing ramped work sets and taking deload weeks to allow for more recovery time between your max effort sessions. [1] http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Texas_Method

I wasn't interested in strength gains anyway, so I did a few different hypertrophy programs, but nothing had really amazing results for me.

Re: Calories in, calories out

#208

Post by BSousa »

induscreep wrote: post #202
BSousa wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people stopped saying this. I do well on a low carb diet, but seriously, I'll eat a pound of bacon (900 kcal) in one sitting if I don't stop myself. I can eat a pound of entrecot easily as well (960 kcal) and still stuff myself after (heck, I used to east 1/2 pount of entrecot + 2 pounds of spinach in a meal and still be hungry, and i'm 150 pounds 5'6) I won't even start with the very high-fat foods (butters,…

Have you tried high protein-low carb instead of high fat-low carb?

I think I've tried most combinations to be honest ;) I change my diet depending on my goals. For example, I will start upping the carbs (probably to 40% or so) soon due to change in exercise schedule and the carb requirements for explosive exercise.

Currently, its around 40-50% protein, 25-30% fat and remaining carbs (fruit and vegetables mostly). I weight and log all my food intake (well, 95% or so, the rest I eyeball it when I go out to eat with my family, but even then I try to keep it simple, grilled steak with veggies, no sauces or oils. That way at least I have an idea on the macros/calories). I prefer to work in ranges to have a bit more freedom than a set number. For example, its 9pm after dinner and I have 82kcal remaining for the day, and since my protein and fat goals for the day were achieved, I'll be eating 12 green olives (weighted) with a bit of garlic as a snack that will get me 5kcal over my daily limit.

It maybe overkill for some, but it works for me. I used to box and had to make weight, knowing and controlling (weighting) the food worked for me, so whenever I want to change my body composition or my work and workout changes, it is my go-to tool and it works. I'm sure it will work for most other people short of some medical issues, but many people don't stick to it or fool themselves by 'forgetting' to log that cookie at work or those 2 spoons of sugar in each of the 4 cups of coffee they have per day. Now, appetite control is something different, and regarding that, I know many folks have problems with, both physical/hormonal and mental to which I don't want to say anything as I don't want to impose my views on other folks and don't know what they have/are going through. I actually try to stay away from nutrition discussions here in HN since there is so much crap flying based on the hip bloggers of the time that I gave up. (fad now for hacker-like mentality seems to be the Paleo and Keto diets being the holy grail of dieting. While both have good, and bad things about it, and I'm sure they have worked for various people, it is almost like discussing which religion is right)

Re: Calories in, calories out

#209

Post by kyllo »

iopq wrote: post #206
kyllo wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but not all human tissue is either muscle fiber or fat. You gain other non-lipid mass in addition. Some of it is from increases in connective tissue. A tiny amount is from increased bone density. A large portion of it is from retaining more glycogen and water. Did you see the articles about Zach, one of Mark Rippetoe's trainees? Based on skinfold caliper measurements, he gained 78 lbs in 6 months, 46 lbs of whi…

there's also no way he's 21% body fat calipers are just an approximate estimate of someone's body fat percentage, and in this case because of body fat distribution (all the fat is very evenly distributed) they're way off, by as much as 5%

What would you estimate his BF% at based on the photos?

Re: Calories in, calories out

#210

Post by bluecalm »

scottious wrote: post #160
bluecalm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calorie counting technique is basically this: "You need to eat less, here is a nifty tool to help you to keep track and maybe make a bit motivated once you see all those numbers". That may work for some people but for vast majority it won't help at all. Overweight/obese people very often know they need to eat less, the problem is they can't do it. "Count calories and don't go over deficit" is basically like saying to…

You know, I never really understood this point until I myself faced addiction. I've never had any issues with eating too much or drinking too much but once I discovered weed I was smoking every day for years and on days that I said I wouldn't I found it somehow happening as if there's another person living in my brain who's only purpose in life is to get high. I realized that I was less in control than I thought I wa…

Also with drugs you have an option to go cold turkey which is what works for many addicts (well, often with some pharmacological help in first stages). With food you don't really have that option which makes it more difficult. That is why one obvious approach to try is to go cold turkey on some foods which are causing the addiction.

I mean we certainly need a lot more research on that but it seems the reason people do well on low-carb high fat or high protein is that they eliminate what caused the addiction for them.

If that's the case then any research which controls for amount of calories is missing the point of what is actually helpful to people as it already assumes the final goal (having people eating less). It is still interesting question if calorie is in fact a calorie but this question isn't in my mind the important one when it comes to solving obesity problem.

More interesting is discovering what behaviors (including both restricting certain foods as well as life style habits like many meals vs few meals, eating breakfast or not etc. etc.) help people to actually stick to calorie deficit while feeling reasonably well during the process.

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