I Hate Puzzles: Am I Still a Programmer? (2011) • Hacker News Board

Re: I Hate Puzzles: Am I Still a Programmer? (2011)

#111

Post by zenciadam » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 5:54 PM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #9

> I’ve been programming for 18 years now. Then congratulations, you are a programmer! Despite what you'll hear from people peddling various flavors of Kool-Aid, "programmer" isn't a personality type. It's a job description. If you program, you are a programmer, end of line, full stop. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

Nah you need to do a few coding boot camps and hackathons before you can call yourself one. Also, you need a git account full of forks of other projects that you haven't made any changes to.

Re: I Hate Puzzles: Am I Still a Programmer? (2011)

#112

Post by MCRed » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 5:54 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #110

MCRed wrote: post #79

This is a feature not a bug-- let me explain: Recruiting is not necessarily easy. But you can judge a company by how they recruit people. Their hiring process-- given that talent is so critical-- tells you a great deal about the company. If they do a terrible job, if they are arbitrary or capricious, or if they have discrimination as a policy (e.g.: I was in the room at Startup School when Zuckerberg said "don't hire…

> Asking for references. First off this is a legal minefield. A reference that isn't glowing is going to open themselves up to liability. Any well run business is only going to say you worked there for some period of time. And who is going to give people they think will give a bad reference? This one shows naivety. I recently stumbled across two research-oriented companies that demanded references as a condition of r…

Just imagine if every company did that-- your references would be overwhelmed with phone calls.

My policy, in the past, was that I'd give references after getting an offer, so that the references would only have to spend their time on a job I wanted to take.

Re: I Hate Puzzles: Am I Still a Programmer? (2011)

#113

Post by LeicaLatte » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 5:55 PM UTC

Weird interview puzzles are out. If you or your community continues to lazily fallback on "puzzles", you must quit your job now.

It is worth solving the problems we solve, however boring and straightforward the solutions can sometime be.

Re: I Hate Puzzles: Am I Still a Programmer? (2011)

#114

Post by vonmoltke » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 5:55 PM UTC

general_failure wrote: post #107

seanflyon wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Algorithms are not puzzles, they are solutions to puzzles.

OK, so it would be ok if an interview someone replied "algorithms are solutions to puzzles" ? I don't think they are. They are solutions to problems in computer programming. Solving computer programming problems has nothing to do with your aptitude in solving puzzles and brain teasers.

Algorithms are independent of both puzzles and computer programming. I learned plenty of algorithms in my EE undergrad that were used with a pencil and paper.

Re: I Hate Puzzles: Am I Still a Programmer? (2011)

#115

Post by danschumann » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 5:58 PM UTC

danschumann wrote: post #61

Best stick to the shallow end of the pool if you can't swim. Do you program? Then you are a programmer. However, in some circles, where extremely complex problems need to be solved, they would say, " No ", because you can't do any of the programming required, and you'd be as useful to them as a rock, only less useful because you take air and food. I play volleyball occasionally, but if I went to the olympic men's tea…

It's like putting an entrance requirement of must use vim. Are all vim users better than non-vim users? No. Would a company gain some sort of productive advantage if everyone used vim? Yes. They would share tips, tricks, and everyone would be faster. Why are people knocking a company's right to arbitrarily poll for employees however they want to?

Fact: Having a specific culture increases productivity at a company, it doesn't even matter what that culture is, as long as everyone is on the same page.

So, no matter how arbitrary and unfair it may seem, it builds cohesion within an organization.

Re: I Hate Puzzles: Am I Still a Programmer? (2011)

#116

Post by throwmeout » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 5:59 PM UTC

I couldn't agree more with this article.

I pursued Computer Science in the hope of being recognized for the ability to create something NOT in the ability to regurgitate the most arcane algorithm in 45 minutes. Most interviewers KNOW they would NEVER like NEVER use it in production.

Yet, I'm not happy at my current job. What option do I have but to remember the 5th variant of the problem I saw in Cracking the coding interview? None.

Back to chugging.

EDIT: Thank you for writing this article! Till today I thought I was an idiot for not being able to solve 'that' problem.

Re: I Hate Puzzles: Am I Still a Programmer? (2011)

#117

Post by foobarqux » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:00 PM UTC

valas wrote: post #7

Google and Facebook long ago stopped asking (or at least now they discourage their interviewers from asking) puzzle-like questions in their SWE interviews.

They stopped asking brainteasers, they didn't stop asking algorithmic puzzles (some of which are arguably brainteasers)

Re: I Hate Puzzles: Am I Still a Programmer? (2011)

#118

Post by zheshishei » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:01 PM UTC

R_Edward wrote: post #105

>Four people need to cross a rickety bridge at night. Unfortunately, they have only one torch and the bridge is too dangerous to cross without one. The bridge is only strong enough to support two people at a time. Not all people take the same time to cross the bridge. Times for each person: 1 min, 2 mins, 7 mins and 10 mins. What is the shortest time needed for all four of them to cross the bridge? 17 minutes, if you…

It'll take 17 minutes for all the people to cross if they all start on the same side:

  start: 1,2,7,10|
  1:     7,10|1,2  =  2 minutes
  2:     1,7,10|2  =  1 minute
  3:     1|2,7,10  = 10 minutes
  4:     1,2|7,10  =  2 minutes
  5:     |1,2,7,10 =  2 minutes
             total:  17 minutes

Re: I Hate Puzzles: Am I Still a Programmer? (2011)

#119

Post by general_failure » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:03 PM UTC

danschumann wrote: post #71

general_failure wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to admit, I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying puzzles are somehow the higher level of programming? You are completely wrong.

Lol.. How can you say I am wrong when you don't understand what I am saying?

Mm, I asked a question before that sentence. I guess I should have preceded it with "if you are, then". Sorry about that.

Re: I Hate Puzzles: Am I Still a Programmer? (2011)

#120

Post by austinz » Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 6:04 PM UTC

I hate "puzzle" questions where there's a single insight with which the problem becomes trivial, without which the problem is unsolvable, and it's a tossup whether or not you'll come across it in the 30-60 minutes you spend in a room with the interviewer.

I do enjoy questions where there the path to the goal isn't immediately obvious, but there are immediately a couple of approaches to consider, and even though the problem itself might be novel, the steps to get there are each something a competent person can reason about.