Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Safari is sending every search query to Apple

gist.github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 144 posts

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#111

Post by mikeash »

superuser2 wrote: post #104
mikeash wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's assuming something nefarious is happening? I find it odd how quickly Apple defenders jump to "let's not assume they're evil" in these cases, when no speculation on motivation is presented. I personally don't care about motivation. I'm not even sure that a large company like Apple can meaningfully have motivations the way that we as individual humans think of them. All that matters is what they do.

It's obvious from the title that we're supposed to see this as a privacy violation, otherwise it wouldn't be news (or the headline would be about the functionality).

Yes, and I think it is a privacy violation.

However, that doesn't mean it's nefarious. I don't doubt that Apple, if it can have motivations at all, implemented this stuff with the best of intentions. But as I said, I don't care about that, I just care about what they do.

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#112

Post by cmelbye »

ljfuller wrote: post #106
cmelbye wrote: post #61

This is inaccurate alarmism. It shouldn't be surprising that the search bar makes autocomplete requests to Apple as you type. The address, phone number, and map link that popped up when you typed in the name of a local business, for example, didn't just appear out of thin air. However, it seemed suspicious to me that Apple would make it impossible, as the author claims, to type in the Safari address bar without sendi…

Howdy, There are two "Spotlight Suggestions": - "Spotlight Suggestions" in Safari - "Spotlight Suggestions" in Spotlight Both query the same servers, both use the same name, and both return the same information. A reasonable person might believe that, having followed Apple's instructions for disabling "Spotlight Suggestions" (the Spotlight kind), they'd disabled "Spotlight Suggestions" (the Safari kind) -- especially…

Perhaps it would make sense to update your Gist to make it clear that Apple isn't trying to force people to funnel their searches through their servers, and that the real issue here is confusing UI?

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#113

Post by wfjackson »

ggreer wrote: post #107
pserwylo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite sure why you got down voted. I bought an iPod nano several years ago, because I quite liked the hardware/software that Apple made. However when I found out that they intentionally broke compatibility with 3rd party music software that isn't iTunes, I made the decision to never buy Apple products again. I don't feel that I'm particularly missing out by making this decision (although I am aware that many othe…

Can you link to an explanation of how Apple intentionally broke 3rd-party syncing with iPod Nanos? I don't know what kerfuffle you're referencing.

http://boingboing.net/2007/09/14/new-ipods-reengineer.html

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#114

Post by eclipxe »

mikeash wrote: post #96
threeseed wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you look under Privacy ? Sending my search term to Apple which then simply does a back end aggregated search and returns the results does not invade my privacy. Unless of course you have some evidence that Apple is collecting those search terms.

I completely disagree. Sending my search terms to Apple is an invasion of privacy. I feel like "don't share your info with other people" is such a basic aspect of privacy that I don't even know how to argue the point. I'm at a loss, as if you had said that trees are made out of meat, or that cars are delivered by storks.

Oh come on.

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#116

Post by blinkingled »

cmelbye wrote: post #112
ljfuller wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Howdy, There are two "Spotlight Suggestions": - "Spotlight Suggestions" in Safari - "Spotlight Suggestions" in Spotlight Both query the same servers, both use the same name, and both return the same information. A reasonable person might believe that, having followed Apple's instructions for disabling "Spotlight Suggestions" (the Spotlight kind), they'd disabled "Spotlight Suggestions" (the Safari kind) -- especially…

Perhaps it would make sense to update your Gist to make it clear that Apple isn't trying to force people to funnel their searches through their servers, and that the real issue here is confusing UI?

Real issue isn't confusing UI although that is part of it - the real issue is that they are misleading the user as if their queries are going only where they want - to the search engine they configured. There is no indication that Apple is receiving a copy of every one of their queries to display Maps results that the user may or may not need.

A privacy conscious implementation would ask the user on startup if they would like to include Maps results in their inline suggestions and if so do they agree to sending their queries to Apple.

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#117

Post by ianlevesque »

cmelbye wrote: post #112
ljfuller wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Howdy, There are two "Spotlight Suggestions": - "Spotlight Suggestions" in Safari - "Spotlight Suggestions" in Spotlight Both query the same servers, both use the same name, and both return the same information. A reasonable person might believe that, having followed Apple's instructions for disabling "Spotlight Suggestions" (the Spotlight kind), they'd disabled "Spotlight Suggestions" (the Safari kind) -- especially…

Perhaps it would make sense to update your Gist to make it clear that Apple isn't trying to force people to funnel their searches through their servers, and that the real issue here is confusing UI?

It's not even that confusing. This is just alarmism for pageviews. Of all the large tech companies right now, Apple has made the most moves to protect user privacy. Disabled 3rd party cookies by default in Safari, randomized WiFi queries, full device ios encryption, opt-in only crash reporting, restricted MAC and UDID access, zero information shared with ApplePay, etc. And yet we're supposed to get out the pitchforks over an autocomplete feature that's disableable with two checkboxes in the UI? Give me a break.

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#118

Post by ctdonath »

blinkingled wrote: post #98
jsmthrowaway wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then where would the Maps suggestions come from? The App Store suggestions? Have you used the feature at all?

I don't need Apple Maps to suggest anything to me. Where do I go to disable that? I don't see anything Maps related in any of the Safari or Spotlight options. Forcing it on by default so Apple gets all my queries is bad in itself - but not having an easy to find option to disable it is worse. Edit: Found it in Include Spotlight Suggestions in Safari options - that seems to stop the Maps results. It's a mess - Safari…

So don't use Spotlight. The whole point is to search EVERYWHERE IT CAN which requires asking a whole lotta services about what you're asking about.

Remember, the UI is intended for most of many millions of users, not the tiny number of people wound up about each and every nuance of a given UI action. Most users either want Spotlight to tell everything it can, or they just don't use it; few indeed want a detailed list of every service involved and a switch for disabling each one (never mind the symbiosis between many of those services).

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#119

Post by blinkingled »

ctdonath wrote: post #118
blinkingled wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't need Apple Maps to suggest anything to me. Where do I go to disable that? I don't see anything Maps related in any of the Safari or Spotlight options. Forcing it on by default so Apple gets all my queries is bad in itself - but not having an easy to find option to disable it is worse. Edit: Found it in Include Spotlight Suggestions in Safari options - that seems to stop the Maps results. It's a mess - Safari…

So don't use Spotlight. The whole point is to search EVERYWHERE IT CAN which requires asking a whole lotta services about what you're asking about. Remember, the UI is intended for most of many millions of users, not the tiny number of people wound up about each and every nuance of a given UI action. Most users either want Spotlight to tell everything it can, or they just don't use it; few indeed want a detailed list…

> So don't use Spotlight.

Oh phew - there's a solution - I can as well stop using a Mac!

>Most users either want Spotlight to tell everything it can, or they just don't use it; few indeed want a detailed list of every service involved and a switch for disabling each one (never mind the symbiosis between many of those services).

I guess there is solid research around this? Good to know everyone wants everything or nothing!

Re: Safari is sending every search query to Apple

#120

Post by aikah »

shekyboy wrote: post #33

Doesn't seem like a data collection initiative. It seems more like a complementary search engine. Apple spotlight search is trying to find other contextual results which may not come back from typical search engines. For example: Apps, Music etc. I am sure you can directly search on google or duckduckgo to avoid that.

Whatever they do,as long as they make it clear it is fine.I think that's an important thing users should be made aware of.It's not a big scandal but it's good practice whenever a soft does that to have the user's explicit consent.

For instance IDEs often ask if they can submit anonymous datas to a server from the software.

Post reply on HN