Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't be too quick to condemn democracy. Granted, most of the propaganda about the vox populi is false. But its key virtue is that it allows change of government without bloodshed. As Popper said, "We are democrats, not because the majority is always right, but because democratic traditions are the least evil ones of which we know". It's not the best system, but it's probably the least bad one.
> But its key virtue is that it allows change of government without bloodshed. This is a strongest point I ever heard in favour of democracy, and ironically, I don't remember ever being taught it in school or see it mentioned often.
A Raw Deal in Michigan
111–120 of 201 posts
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cold weather performance is trumpeted a lot by EV detractors, but the number one selling new car in Norway last month was the Tesla Model S. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/08/tesla-norway-idUSL... Here's an interesting interview from Elon Musk about the Tesla battery winter performance. http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/01/interview-with-elon-musk...
From your first link: > "Electric cars have been especially popular in Norway because of generous subsidies, free parking, government-provided re-charging stations, the right to use express lanes on highways and exemptions from tolls." Yeah, Michigan has (almost) none of that. Cold weather battery performance could be ignored here if there were charging stations all over. Sure, there are a handful of charging station…
Norway's average temperature is way colder than Michigan's.
http://www.weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperatu...
Oslo, Norway is one of the southern cities... Norway's geography extends all the way up to the arctic circle. Its latitude is more similar to Alaska.
Tromsø, Norway is very far above the arctic circle, and my understanding is that the Tesla has been performing quite well even way up north in Tromsø.
To give you an idea of how far North Tromsø is... their record snowfall in 1997 amounted to 95 inches of snow.
Basically, Tesla has figured out the "Cold Electric Vehicle Battery" thing. The Tesla's popularity across Norway is proof of that.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in Michigan, and was dishearten when I read about this story the other day. But not really that surprised. A few observations: - Tesla isn't a name brand here like Ford or GM. In fact, if you asked a lot of people if we should help the Big Three with this sort of legislation, you might be surprised by the answer. Remember, they generate a LOT of jobs in this state: not just the Big Three, but the tier 2 and ti…
Cold weather performance is trumpeted a lot by EV detractors, but the number one selling new car in Norway last month was the Tesla Model S. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/08/tesla-norway-idUSL... Here's an interesting interview from Elon Musk about the Tesla battery winter performance. http://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/01/interview-with-elon-musk...
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
The question is whether or not to ban lobbying is not a reasonable one, if only because lobbying would not be able to be banned just on a principle of free speech alone. People have a voice—good, bad, whatever—and lobbying provides an efficient means of communicating that voice. The question is rather how to reduce, if not obviate, the damage caused by the role of money in lobbying without violating free speech right…
Money is not speech, despite the Citizens United ruling.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are fairly objective rankings of this sort of thing[1] and both The Netherlands and Germany score significantly better than the US. That we also have corruption does not mean it is as bad as elsewhere and does not mean we don't get to call out blatant examples of it, especially blatant examples of the sort that are easy to get rid of by calling them out. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_…
The issue is, the Netherlands, in it's firm believe that it's so much better than other countries, has created a warped perception of corruption, which makes us look good in those survey based rankings. Because we actually believe our own delusion. Take for instance the recent German corruption scandal that forced President Wulff to resign. Receiving such favors is business as usual in the Netherlands, and simply doe…
Why not? I'm not a politician. I didn't pass laws for favours. When I can't point at corruption when I see it, just because it also happens closer to me, aren't we just making the problem bigger?
In fact, what you're saying only underlines my point. Different countries are half-blind to the local flavour of corruption. How about we Dutch call out American corruption, and Americans call out ours? I realize nothing's really changing because all we're doing is arguing on the internet, but what in the world could be wrong with that?
Moral high ground, screw that. It's corruption, plain and simple.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
My retired father-in-law who lives in a suburb of Detroit got a car that was not manufactured by the by the Big Three a couple years ago. He felt so much social pressure that he quickly returned it and got one that was. He told me that some "foreign" cars would be egged in his neighborhood. I put foreign in quotes, as big three cars are not always manufactured in the US and sometimes other cars are manufactured here.…
I live in a Detroit suburb, a large number of the residents here are engineers, many for GM, Ford and Chrysler, but quite a few for Toyota, Hyundai and other foreign suppliers (like Bosch and Yazaki). I see many domestic, but almost as many imports here. I think a lot of the stigma is gone, certainly there is considerable pressure for people to drive their employers vehicle to work, but at least in my (relatively ups…
Interestingly, my father worked for Chrysler outside of Detroit from the late 1950s into the 1970s.
And oddly enough, he drove a VW Beetle in the 1960s. As you can imagine, when things were good, he was just viewed as the eccentric guy who drove a puny foreign car (why would anybody in their right mind do that?).
In the 1970s (and 1980s) doing something similar was probably a moderately dangerous move.
I've been back many times during my life and in the 1990s and onward, I see plenty of foreign cars.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's nothing corrupt about it. The voting citizens of Michigan like the auto industry the way it is and they have an understandable fear of disruptive new technologies. It makes good sense that someone representing a state known for producing automobiles would accept campaign contributions from automobile manufacturers. Many of the people he represents are employed by those companies in some way and it's his job t…
> It makes good sense that someone representing a state known for producing automobiles would accept campaign contributions from automobile manufacturers I, for one, agree with you wholeheartedly. This is politics in action. Just because you don't particularly agree with a decision doesn't mean it isn't working as intended. When subjects like this are broached on this forum, we hear about lobbying and corruption, as…
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tesla's rivals are big employers in Michigan. That is also a factor, their employee's have only experienced the positive side of protectionism.
It's possible the Big 3 would actually prefer a Tesla-like direct-to-consumer model; for example, Chrysler tried opening a Chrysler-owned store in LA a few years ago, only to have it shot down by local law. I'd imagine that if one of the Big 3 started doing direct sales, dealers would stop selling their cars en masse. There's no way for an established manufacturer to stop selling to dealers.
Tesla doesn't care about that much because they don't have any inventory.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#119As a Michigan native (though long gone) and someone erring on the side of conservatism, this is just a disappointment all around. Michigan is historically manufacturer friendly - to a fault, so they really went out of their way here. Eventually all of these statutes will probably be stricken down due to the commerce clause... you are buying the vehicle direct from another state, therefore it's interstate commerce.
Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
The costs of this legislation are distributed across all consumers, while the benefits are concentrated in the hands of a small group of automobile dealers. This gives the dealers a large incentive to lobby politicians, and little incentive for consumers to pay attention and vote accordingly. This is the same reason Uber is facing a lot of flak right now from governments around the world. On the bright side, in the l…
>This is the same reason Uber is facing a lot of flak right now from governments around the world. It isn't though. Governments are in conflict with Uber because of things like Uber drivers not being insured. The German government wants Uber to ensure that their drivers are insured. Uber refused to do that. That is why Uber was 'banned'. Uninsured drivers is a cost spread across society, but the gains are concentrate…
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/17/business/international/ube...