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A Raw Deal in Michigan

teslamotors.com

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Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#21
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about the case in Germany. Why are you linking to articles that start with the words "In The US"? This is the kind of blind defence of Uber that gives the entire tech sector a bad name.

Well, my mistake then. Where is your evidence that Uber drivers in Germany are uninsured? That seems implausible.

[deleted]

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#22
Using a procedure that prevented legislators and the public at large from knowing what was happening or allowing debate, Senator Joe Hune added new language in an attempt to lock Tesla out of the State. Unsurprisingly, Senator Hune counts the Michigan Automobile Dealers Association as one of his top financial contributors, and his wife’s firm lobbies for the dealers.

In the Netherlands, we call this corruption.

(It happens too, but so openly? Don't you guys have rules against this? Or media who like scandals?)

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#23

But this really comes down to voting. Why does a better funded candidate win? Because a TV ad convinced some idiot to vote for that candidate? I see informercials and "work from home and make millions" scams all the time. But I don't buy the product whatever it might be. Yet voters seemingly are completely ignorant. So candidates who are well funded by special interests end up winning. But often these anti-competitiv…

The destructive influence of lobbying is not restricted to a single party, as you seem to be arguing. Off the top of my head, I would point to three-strike laws, which strongly favour the (privatized) prison sector, or hawkish foreign policies, benefiting armament and security companies, as examples of areas in which Republican-directed lobbies have distorted US policy.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#24

Using a procedure that prevented legislators and the public at large from knowing what was happening or allowing debate, Senator Joe Hune added new language in an attempt to lock Tesla out of the State. Unsurprisingly, Senator Hune counts the Michigan Automobile Dealers Association as one of his top financial contributors, and his wife’s firm lobbies for the dealers. In the Netherlands, we call this corruption. (It h…

Constitutional right to Free Speech for corporations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Elec...

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#25

Using a procedure that prevented legislators and the public at large from knowing what was happening or allowing debate, Senator Joe Hune added new language in an attempt to lock Tesla out of the State. Unsurprisingly, Senator Hune counts the Michigan Automobile Dealers Association as one of his top financial contributors, and his wife’s firm lobbies for the dealers. In the Netherlands, we call this corruption. (It h…

It's always the same story with Lobbying.

If you say "I'm giving you $1M to pass this law", it's corruption, if you say "I'm giving you $1M, but if you don't pass this law i'm going to withdraw it", then it's lobbying.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#26

Using a procedure that prevented legislators and the public at large from knowing what was happening or allowing debate, Senator Joe Hune added new language in an attempt to lock Tesla out of the State. Unsurprisingly, Senator Hune counts the Michigan Automobile Dealers Association as one of his top financial contributors, and his wife’s firm lobbies for the dealers. In the Netherlands, we call this corruption. (It h…

  > Don't you guys have rules against this? Or media who like scandals?
Yes, but the rules are different for South African expats attempting to weild power as flashy know-it-all technocrats trying to boss around the home team. Understand that state and local governance attracts a strata of intellect that includes a broad swath ranging from high school gym coach all the way up to your brother-in-law's idiot nephew who needs a job.

Some animals are more equal than others.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#27

As an outsider, it really is difficult to understand why these practices are supported/allowed by the public. Is this information even available to people outside of the tech community? What in the hell is wrong with US politics* that allows for this to happen so blatantly, and so regularly, without any repercussions at all? * I'm aware that it's not (in general) a US-only problem, but for Tesla and the car dealershi…

> allowed by the public Well, democracy is largely bullshit so your phrase endears the democratic process with more credit than it is due. We suppose that our quality of life and our pace of change are side effects of our current leadership process. I personally suppose that is is but a partial input to a more complex contrivance of systems which have led us to where we are.

Don't be too quick to condemn democracy. Granted, most of the propaganda about the vox populi is false. But its key virtue is that it allows change of government without bloodshed. As Popper said, "We are democrats, not because the majority is always right, but because democratic traditions are the least evil ones of which we know". It's not the best system, but it's probably the least bad one.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#28

Using a procedure that prevented legislators and the public at large from knowing what was happening or allowing debate, Senator Joe Hune added new language in an attempt to lock Tesla out of the State. Unsurprisingly, Senator Hune counts the Michigan Automobile Dealers Association as one of his top financial contributors, and his wife’s firm lobbies for the dealers. In the Netherlands, we call this corruption. (It h…

It's always the same story with Lobbying. If you say "I'm giving you $1M to pass this law", it's corruption, if you say "I'm giving you $1M, but if you don't pass this law i'm going to withdraw it", then it's lobbying.

Hence, lobbying equals corruption. Period.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#29

Using a procedure that prevented legislators and the public at large from knowing what was happening or allowing debate, Senator Joe Hune added new language in an attempt to lock Tesla out of the State. Unsurprisingly, Senator Hune counts the Michigan Automobile Dealers Association as one of his top financial contributors, and his wife’s firm lobbies for the dealers. In the Netherlands, we call this corruption. (It h…

> media who like scandals

Media only likes scandals about foreign enemies. Otherwise they are self-censoring in order not to loose faith in the economy which growth is just based on promise.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#30

Using a procedure that prevented legislators and the public at large from knowing what was happening or allowing debate, Senator Joe Hune added new language in an attempt to lock Tesla out of the State. Unsurprisingly, Senator Hune counts the Michigan Automobile Dealers Association as one of his top financial contributors, and his wife’s firm lobbies for the dealers. In the Netherlands, we call this corruption. (It h…

There's nothing corrupt about it. The voting citizens of Michigan like the auto industry the way it is and they have an understandable fear of disruptive new technologies. It makes good sense that someone representing a state known for producing automobiles would accept campaign contributions from automobile manufacturers. Many of the people he represents are employed by those companies in some way and it's his job to advocate for their interests and work with their lobbyists. It's good that a senator's campaign is funded by the businesses from his or her state, as opposed to being funded by organizations that have nothing to do with the concerns of the state's citizens. The people and their representatives are on the same team.

Representative democracies work the same in the US, the Netherlands and all over. If a majority of the people of Michigan were vocally demanding Tesla dealerships, they would get them. That might be the case in a few years, but all we can do now is let the system work. There's a midterm election coming up soon and all of the Michiganders on hn can vote and convince others to vote for Tesla, but change may take time.

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