A Raw Deal in Michigan • Hacker News Board

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#31

Post by cdnsteve » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 11:14 AM UTC

danielhunt wrote: post #2

As an outsider, it really is difficult to understand why these practices are supported/allowed by the public. Is this information even available to people outside of the tech community? What in the hell is wrong with US politics* that allows for this to happen so blatantly, and so regularly, without any repercussions at all? * I'm aware that it's not (in general) a US-only problem, but for Tesla and the car dealershi…

Why is it that first world countries have the most unaccountable political systems ever seen? Even here in Canada, Rob Ford anyone?

Here too in Canada we've banned Zenn, a Canadian electric car company - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZENN but we're making prominent bike lanes, go figure.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#32

Post by smoyer » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 11:16 AM UTC

Does anyone else get the sense that the Tesla Legal and Public Relations departments are starting to have fun attacking the politicians who push these bills through? The wording feels different than most corporate press releases.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#33

Post by Someone » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 11:18 AM UTC

Harsh statements, but no facts from objective sources. Looking for that, I can find stuff from 'the other side' at http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ejuo53qtuul1s2fn2o4sa255))/... where if I reading this right (aside: 'interesting' reuse of "(i)" as both ninth letter of the alphabet and Roman numeral) section i reads

"(1) A manufacturer shall not do any of the following:

(i) Sell any new motor vehicle directly to a retail customer other than through its franchised dealers, unless the retail customer is a nonprofit organization or a federal, state, or local government or agency. This subdivision does not prohibit a manufacturer from providing information to a consumer for the purpose of marketing or facilitating the sale of new motor vehicles or from establishing a program to sell or offer to sell new motor vehicles through the manufacturer's new motor vehicle dealers."

, but that text isn't recent (see the history at the bottom).

What exactly did they change and what were the arguments?

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#34

Post by willvarfar » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 11:19 AM UTC

hooande wrote: post #30

skrebbel wrote: post #22

Using a procedure that prevented legislators and the public at large from knowing what was happening or allowing debate, Senator Joe Hune added new language in an attempt to lock Tesla out of the State. Unsurprisingly, Senator Hune counts the Michigan Automobile Dealers Association as one of his top financial contributors, and his wife’s firm lobbies for the dealers. In the Netherlands, we call this corruption. (It h…

There's nothing corrupt about it. The voting citizens of Michigan like the auto industry the way it is and they have an understandable fear of disruptive new technologies. It makes good sense that someone representing a state known for producing automobiles would accept campaign contributions from automobile manufacturers. Many of the people he represents are employed by those companies in some way and it's his job t…

Do these donors represent the interests of the corporations or the citizens?

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#35

Post by codeduck » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 11:21 AM UTC

jmckib wrote: post #19

anon1385 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about the case in Germany. Why are you linking to articles that start with the words "In The US"? This is the kind of blind defence of Uber that gives the entire tech sector a bad name.

Well, my mistake then. Where is your evidence that Uber drivers in Germany are uninsured? That seems implausible.

They lack the necessary commercial insurance.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#36

Post by ams6110 » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 11:34 AM UTC

willvarfar wrote: post #34

hooande wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing corrupt about it. The voting citizens of Michigan like the auto industry the way it is and they have an understandable fear of disruptive new technologies. It makes good sense that someone representing a state known for producing automobiles would accept campaign contributions from automobile manufacturers. Many of the people he represents are employed by those companies in some way and it's his job t…

Do these donors represent the interests of the corporations or the citizens?

The two are not necessarily opposed

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#37

Post by tomp » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 11:39 AM UTC

hooande wrote: post #30

skrebbel wrote: post #22

Using a procedure that prevented legislators and the public at large from knowing what was happening or allowing debate, Senator Joe Hune added new language in an attempt to lock Tesla out of the State. Unsurprisingly, Senator Hune counts the Michigan Automobile Dealers Association as one of his top financial contributors, and his wife’s firm lobbies for the dealers. In the Netherlands, we call this corruption. (It h…

There's nothing corrupt about it. The voting citizens of Michigan like the auto industry the way it is and they have an understandable fear of disruptive new technologies. It makes good sense that someone representing a state known for producing automobiles would accept campaign contributions from automobile manufacturers. Many of the people he represents are employed by those companies in some way and it's his job t…

> It makes good sense that someone representing a state known for producing automobiles would accept campaign contributions from automobile manufacturers.

Except, you know, that the contributions weren't from automobile manufacturers, but from the dealerships, whose interests are in conflict with the manufacturers (the more one party earns, the less there is for the other).

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#38

Post by Arnt » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 11:40 AM UTC

hooande wrote: post #30

skrebbel wrote: post #22

Using a procedure that prevented legislators and the public at large from knowing what was happening or allowing debate, Senator Joe Hune added new language in an attempt to lock Tesla out of the State. Unsurprisingly, Senator Hune counts the Michigan Automobile Dealers Association as one of his top financial contributors, and his wife’s firm lobbies for the dealers. In the Netherlands, we call this corruption. (It h…

There's nothing corrupt about it. The voting citizens of Michigan like the auto industry the way it is and they have an understandable fear of disruptive new technologies. It makes good sense that someone representing a state known for producing automobiles would accept campaign contributions from automobile manufacturers. Many of the people he represents are employed by those companies in some way and it's his job t…

No, representative democracies do not work the same all over. Some have a 98% reelection rate, but not all.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#39

Post by ams6110 » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 11:40 AM UTC

Michigan is in the toilet. Detroit is bankrupt, huge parts of the city are abandoned ruins, and the rest of the state isn't much better off. Tesla probably would not sell many cars there anyway. If I'm wrong, it's a good opportunity for northern Indiana or Ohio to court a Tesla store.

Re: A Raw Deal in Michigan

#40

Post by wil421 » Fri, Oct 17, 2014, 11:41 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #22

Using a procedure that prevented legislators and the public at large from knowing what was happening or allowing debate, Senator Joe Hune added new language in an attempt to lock Tesla out of the State. Unsurprisingly, Senator Hune counts the Michigan Automobile Dealers Association as one of his top financial contributors, and his wife’s firm lobbies for the dealers. In the Netherlands, we call this corruption. (It h…

The reason it isnt counted as corruption is because they use it as campaign funds.

Domestic spying aside, this is the biggest problem I have with the my govt. How can you be representing your constituents when your pocket is filled by corporations.