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The fatal attraction of lead

bbc.com

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Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#61

Post by frik »

masklinn wrote: post #51
frik wrote: post #45

The european union (EU) banned lead gasoline in 2000 (~ 2005 "lead free"), USA already in 1978. Many airplanes can still legally use lead fuel. source (german): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorenbenzin#Verbleites_Benzin

> The european union (EU) banned lead gasoline in 2000 (~ 2005 "lead free"), USA already in 1978. These dates are to completely different events. The US started phasing out leaded gas in the mid-70s (the EPA announced its first regs in 1975, effective 1978) but didn't complete the phaseout until 1996. The EU did start and complete its phaseout later (starting in 1981, in part because of the resistance of some members…

In Austria gas stations offered lead gasoline til 1993: http://sciencev1.orf.at/science/news/67046

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#62

Post by DonHopkins »

My grandparents had lead christmas tree tinsel, which they carefully removed from the tree at the end of christmas and packed away for next year. It was admittedly beautiful, and it hung straight down without fluttering around like that cheap plastic stuff!

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#63

Post by DonHopkins »

ern wrote: post #60
dctoedt wrote: post #3

I wonder if leaded gasoline is playing any kind of role in the continued unrest in the Middle East? FTA: Chronic lead exposure causes depression, headaches, aggression and memory loss. .... [M]any academics now believe leaded petrol was responsible for a global crime wave that peaked in the 1990s. ... Amazingly, a handful of countries - Iraq, Yemen, Burma, North Korea - continue to use leaded petrol.

I don't mean to sound glib, but the 2003 invasion of Iraq probably is a much bigger reason for the continued unrest in that country. Syria isn't listed as using leaded gasoline, nor are Lebanon, Palestine, Israel, Bahrain, Libya or Tunisia, and yet all of these have some degree of unrest/instability/violence/civil war.

The depleted uranium powder we scattered all over the countryside is worse than lead.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#65

Post by ap22213 »

kirsebaer wrote: post #14

Lead paint and lead gasoline are shocking examples of corporate misbehavior. Interior lead paint was banned in many European countries by the 1920s because of the obvious health risks. But in the US the lead manufactures responded to health concerns with "Dutch Boy" lead paint, deliberately marketed to appear safe enough for a child to use. They actually had advertising campaigns promoting lead paint for childrens' t…

So, given this, shouldn't it be possible to compare Europe to the US between 1920 and 1978 and see the affects of lead?

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#66

Post by infinotize »

tobinfricke wrote: post #4

Surprisingly, the fuel used in piston-powered aircraft generally still contains lead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas Wikipedia says that the amount of lead in 100LL avgas is "about 4 times what was in pre-1975 leaded automotive grade gasoline." As a private pilot, yes I do feel a bit guilty that my hobby adds lead to the environment ...

Agreed, it doesn't sit well, and we burn a lot of gas in sheer quantity as well (~9 gallons/hr in a typical 172).

A big part of the problem is regulation and the certification process. Of course there is a good case for heavy regulation in aviation, but particularly in low-volume general aviation costs have been kept too high for too long that it really has stifled innovation. We are only beginning to see modern engines in light piston aircraft.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#67

Post by TheCoelacanth »

ap22213 wrote: post #65
kirsebaer wrote: post #14

Lead paint and lead gasoline are shocking examples of corporate misbehavior. Interior lead paint was banned in many European countries by the 1920s because of the obvious health risks. But in the US the lead manufactures responded to health concerns with "Dutch Boy" lead paint, deliberately marketed to appear safe enough for a child to use. They actually had advertising campaigns promoting lead paint for childrens' t…

So, given this, shouldn't it be possible to compare Europe to the US between 1920 and 1978 and see the affects of lead?

I think leaded fuel, which most European countries banned around the same time that the US did, will overpower the effects of lead-based paint. There have been findings that the murder rate is closely correlated with the total amount of environmental lead from 21 years earlier[1].

[1] http://www.livescience.com/38056-murder-rate-and-the-environ...

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#68

Post by blisterpeanuts »

masklinn wrote: post #51
frik wrote: post #45

The european union (EU) banned lead gasoline in 2000 (~ 2005 "lead free"), USA already in 1978. Many airplanes can still legally use lead fuel. source (german): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorenbenzin#Verbleites_Benzin

> The european union (EU) banned lead gasoline in 2000 (~ 2005 "lead free"), USA already in 1978. These dates are to completely different events. The US started phasing out leaded gas in the mid-70s (the EPA announced its first regs in 1975, effective 1978) but didn't complete the phaseout until 1996. The EU did start and complete its phaseout later (starting in 1981, in part because of the resistance of some members…

Wikipedia[1] lists the U.S. phaseout as having completed in 1995. Some of the countries mentioned in the BBC article are phasing out leaded gasoline: Algeria in 2014, Iraq in 2015.

I wonder why it's still even called "unleaded" in the U.S. when you can't even buy leaded gasoline anymore. Maybe it should just be called gasoline or better yet, petrol. The commonly used term "gas" is confusing because Americans use it to refer to liquid refined petroleum fuel i.e. gasoline, yet also to refer to gaseous substances that include methane and other fossil fuels.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#69

Post by Shivetya »

danielweber wrote: post #26
_delirium wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I hadn't realized the first bans were as early as the 1920s. Researching a bit now, it seems like concerns were raised by at least the 19th century, and were pretty solid by the early 20th, which is not at all how I've heard it presented previously. I had previously assumed that it was not really known to science until the 1960s or so, which seems untrue. From what I've found in some quick digging, it se…

Lead paint was recommended by the Federal government and required for many projects for much of the 20th century. This is a (admittedly biased, just look at the URL) page discussing some examples of the history: http://www.leadlawsuits.com/index.php?s=699

This link is very informative with regards to lead paint, it wasn't some corporate abuse, there were compelling reasons to use lead paint and hence it was accepted. It even notes that it was rarely found in interior paints by the forties, it persisted in outdoor paints because it could withstand the elements.

That strength was why it was used in the first place, you could wash it and the concerns of that age were communicable diseases that were slowed or prevented by washing, which the previous interior covering being wallpaper was not so durable and was suspected of easily harboring disease through pores and the glue.

Top it off with the US Government basically telling you to use it. Many of the health concerns for lead use were only seen as manufacturing dangers, end products were not considered unsafe.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#70

Post by dzhiurgis »

danieltillett wrote: post #24
comrade1 wrote: post #7

And it tastes so so sweet... When my friends and I were children we found pieces of lead while dumpster diving. Probably 5 pounds of it. We taught ourselves how to make plaster-of-paris molds and tried to counterfeit the most important thing to us - video game tokens from the local arcade. We made only a handful of tokens before we realized the effort was more than the payoff. We had to rebuild the mold each time and…

I did the same thing as as a kid with my brother (we broken open batteries instead to get the lead). I never tried to spend the “money” we made, but just used it to impress other kids in the playground. I guess this is where some of the appeal of physical gold comes from - the weight of these coins when held in the hand sure impressed. We avoided breaking the mould by casting the plaster of paris in two sections. The…

Batteries also hold PbSO3 or smth, which mixed with aluminium powder makes very loud bang.

Oh and then the acetone peroxide we used to make from washing liquid. Don't even ask me how I managed to source nitric acid as I just kept it in my room until mason jar lid just disintegrated...

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