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The fatal attraction of lead

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Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#11

Post by simonveal »

dctoedt wrote: post #3

I wonder if leaded gasoline is playing any kind of role in the continued unrest in the Middle East? FTA: Chronic lead exposure causes depression, headaches, aggression and memory loss. .... [M]any academics now believe leaded petrol was responsible for a global crime wave that peaked in the 1990s. ... Amazingly, a handful of countries - Iraq, Yemen, Burma, North Korea - continue to use leaded petrol.

This reminds me of a similar theory put forward by Edward de Bono a while back. He suggested it might be lack of zinc in the diet, caused by eating unleavened bread. He proposed shipping out Marmite to help.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/de-bonos-marmite-plan-for-...

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#12

Post by tobinfricke »

SpacemanSpiff wrote: post #6
tobinfricke wrote: post #4

Surprisingly, the fuel used in piston-powered aircraft generally still contains lead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas Wikipedia says that the amount of lead in 100LL avgas is "about 4 times what was in pre-1975 leaded automotive grade gasoline." As a private pilot, yes I do feel a bit guilty that my hobby adds lead to the environment ...

Thankfully, the general aviation industry in the US is moving away from leaded avgas. http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2014/September/0...

Unfortunately (and I say this as a member of the organization), I feel like the AOPA is fighting - or at least dragging its feet - on the issue, since transition to any other fuel is likely to add some kind of expense or inconvenience.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#13

Post by myself248 »

comrade1 wrote: post #7

And it tastes so so sweet... When my friends and I were children we found pieces of lead while dumpster diving. Probably 5 pounds of it. We taught ourselves how to make plaster-of-paris molds and tried to counterfeit the most important thing to us - video game tokens from the local arcade. We made only a handful of tokens before we realized the effort was more than the payoff. We had to rebuild the mold each time and…

> And it tastes so so sweet...

You mean wall candy? http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/1999/10/18

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#14

Post by kirsebaer »

Lead paint and lead gasoline are shocking examples of corporate misbehavior.

Interior lead paint was banned in many European countries by the 1920s because of the obvious health risks. But in the US the lead manufactures responded to health concerns with "Dutch Boy" lead paint, deliberately marketed to appear safe enough for a child to use. They actually had advertising campaigns promoting lead paint for childrens' toys, cribs, and bedrooms. Household lead paint not banned in the US until 1978, and it now a major concern and cost for people living in older homes.

The health risks of leaded gasoline were also obvious to many, and ethanol was known as a safe alternative anti-knock additive in the 1920s. General Motors and Alfred P. Sloan tried to hide the risks of lead paint via front groups and manipulation of regulatory agencies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLoixnECec0 Video about Dutch Boy paint advertising to children.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/04/why-it-too... David Rosner is the Ronald H. Lauterstein Professor of Sociomedical Sciences and a professor of history at Columbia University. Gerald Markowitz is a Distinguished Professor of History at John Jay College and CUNY Graduate Center. Their most recent book is Lead Wars: The Politics of Science and the Fate of Americaís Children.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/07/violent... Yes, lead poisoning could really be a cause of violent crime, by George Monbiot

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/lead-paint-lawsuit-... Lead Paint Makers Could Face The Same Fate As Big Tobacco

http://www.thenation.com/article/secret-history-lead The Secret History of Lead

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#15

Post by RankingMember »

Various causes have been credited for the decline of violent crime in the 1990s in the U.S., one of which was the legalization of abortion in 1973. I didn't realize violent crime declined globally at the same time. That makes me think that perhaps leaded gas is a more likely culprit.

Untreated ADHD has also been linked to violent crime, so with any luck we'll continue the downward trend in violent incidence as the treatment of ADHD continues.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3398051/

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#16

Post by dghughes »

gsnedders wrote: post #8
tobinfricke wrote: post #4

Surprisingly, the fuel used in piston-powered aircraft generally still contains lead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas Wikipedia says that the amount of lead in 100LL avgas is "about 4 times what was in pre-1975 leaded automotive grade gasoline." As a private pilot, yes I do feel a bit guilty that my hobby adds lead to the environment ...

A large proportion of piston-powered aircraft are relatively old — many are general aviation aircraft, and the hours put on the airframes are small compared with most commercial aircraft, so most predate the ban of leaded automotive fuel. There's a lot of resistance to changing anything around aviation, especially when it comes to engines. Many (or most?) piston-powered aircraft are single-engined aircraft, where a s…

Old being the key since the engines require lead for valve lubrication and most have a carburetor not fuel-injection so power is not as good as fuel-injected.

Getting power out of a certain quantity of fuel is also a big plus since the 100 liters of leaded avgas you carry can take you 600km but unleaded maybe only 500km.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#17

Post by _delirium »

kirsebaer wrote: post #14

Lead paint and lead gasoline are shocking examples of corporate misbehavior. Interior lead paint was banned in many European countries by the 1920s because of the obvious health risks. But in the US the lead manufactures responded to health concerns with "Dutch Boy" lead paint, deliberately marketed to appear safe enough for a child to use. They actually had advertising campaigns promoting lead paint for childrens' t…

Interesting, I hadn't realized the first bans were as early as the 1920s. Researching a bit now, it seems like concerns were raised by at least the 19th century, and were pretty solid by the early 20th, which is not at all how I've heard it presented previously. I had previously assumed that it was not really known to science until the 1960s or so, which seems untrue.

From what I've found in some quick digging, it seems like the early bans were driven by workplace-safety concerns (rather than residential safety), as unions agitated to ban dangerous substances that had been causing health problems for painters and other workers who were exposed to it (e.g. through sanding). There was a 1921 convention of the International Labor Organization to that effect, but the U.S. didn't sign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lead_%28Painting%29_Conv...

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#18

Post by idlewords »

dctoedt wrote: post #3

I wonder if leaded gasoline is playing any kind of role in the continued unrest in the Middle East? FTA: Chronic lead exposure causes depression, headaches, aggression and memory loss. .... [M]any academics now believe leaded petrol was responsible for a global crime wave that peaked in the 1990s. ... Amazingly, a handful of countries - Iraq, Yemen, Burma, North Korea - continue to use leaded petrol.

"Unrest in the Middle East" is a blanket phrase so broad as to be meaningless. What specific conflict do you have in mind?

Keep in mind that the number of vehicles per capita is much lower in Iraq and Yemen (the only two countries you mention) than in the United States.

Your comment rubs me the wrong way since it speaks to a mindset where complicated geopolitical problems can be solved or explained by a simple hack. Don't use lead! Peace treaties to follow.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#19

Post by johnward »

4ad wrote: post #2

In Romania they used to still use lead plumbing until the early 2000s! As a kid, I loved that stuff, so maleable, you could do so many things from it, and it melted so easily. I loved to melt it and cast into into various shapes.

I remember chewing on some lead fishing sinkers once or twice before my dad told me I was an idiot and playing with mercury one time when I broke a thermometer. I just wonder what "safe" things we use daily that we'll look back and say wtf were we thinking?

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#20

Post by dctoedt »

idlewords wrote: post #18
dctoedt wrote: post #3

I wonder if leaded gasoline is playing any kind of role in the continued unrest in the Middle East? FTA: Chronic lead exposure causes depression, headaches, aggression and memory loss. .... [M]any academics now believe leaded petrol was responsible for a global crime wave that peaked in the 1990s. ... Amazingly, a handful of countries - Iraq, Yemen, Burma, North Korea - continue to use leaded petrol.

"Unrest in the Middle East" is a blanket phrase so broad as to be meaningless. What specific conflict do you have in mind? Keep in mind that the number of vehicles per capita is much lower in Iraq and Yemen (the only two countries you mention) than in the United States. Your comment rubs me the wrong way since it speaks to a mindset where complicated geopolitical problems can be solved or explained by a simple hack.…

> What specific [Middle East] conflict do you have in mind?

There are so many ....

> Keep in mind that the number of vehicles per capita is much lower in Iraq and Yemen

Certainly that's a datum to take into account (I'm not being sarcastic).

> Your comment ... speaks to a mindset where complicated geopolitical problems can be solved or explained by a simple hack.

Does it now?

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