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The fatal attraction of lead

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41–50 of 73 posts

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#41
post #35

The crime rate correlation with lead tainted gasoline is fascinating. Could it be that in lower socioeconomic areas have older cars that produces lead in to the air, and the population ends up breathing a lot of it?

Lead emissions come from the gasoline that's burned, not the cars burning it. Once leaded gasoline was eliminated, lead emissions from cars ceased.

New cars are required to be fitted with catalytic converters that reduce pollutants.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#42
post #41
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lead emissions come from the gasoline that's burned, not the cars burning it. Once leaded gasoline was eliminated, lead emissions from cars ceased.

New cars are required to be fitted with catalytic converters that reduce pollutants.

Those help burn stuff like hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide in the exhaust. It's unrelated to lead.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#43
post #25
post #3

I wonder if leaded gasoline is playing any kind of role in the continued unrest in the Middle East? FTA: Chronic lead exposure causes depression, headaches, aggression and memory loss. .... [M]any academics now believe leaded petrol was responsible for a global crime wave that peaked in the 1990s. ... Amazingly, a handful of countries - Iraq, Yemen, Burma, North Korea - continue to use leaded petrol.

This was debunked in an article I saw recently, where it turned out that the data was cherrypicked pretty dramatically. Let me try and locate it.

It's pretty well established that lead was a factor, by multiple studies. I'm guessing it wasn't quite as sound a debunking as you remember?

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#44

The use of leaded paint indoors and of leaded gasoline were particularly dangerous, but there are still numerous potential sources of lead exposure, especially in certain industries, but also for the average person. Exposure has decreased, but the safe blood lead level has also been reduced as we become increasingly aware of the harms of sub-clinical lead poisoning. Two interesting properties of lead's toxicity that…

From what I was told, lead-free solder has a large amount of flux in it to make it half-way usable. Unless you're licking your fingers after soldering with leaded solder, you may be doing more damage to your lungs with the lead-free stuff than you're doing to your body with the leaded. But I'd love to see the numbers on this.

I've looked into this, but I'm torn. In my mind the most compelling arguments against lead-free are: of the studies of factory workers who work every day with lead/tin solder, they couldn't find elevated blood lead levels; and that the fluxes in lead-free solders are both more exotic (i.e. less studied for adverse health effects) and a greater proportion of the solder.

The danger of absorbed lead is clear, but it's not a straight line from there to lead-free solder. Furthermore, the process that resulted in the EU (mostly) banning lead solder seems to be based more on the precautionary principle than any evidence of health or environmental damage from solder specifically. Added to that is some definite PR misinformation floating around - it's been hard for me to come to any conclusions.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#46
post #43
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was debunked in an article I saw recently, where it turned out that the data was cherrypicked pretty dramatically. Let me try and locate it.

It's pretty well established that lead was a factor, by multiple studies. I'm guessing it wasn't quite as sound a debunking as you remember?

The main problem with the study: it was only done in Western Europe and North America. It doesn't work when you try the idea on, say, Japan.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#47

The crime rate correlation with lead tainted gasoline is fascinating. Could it be that in lower socioeconomic areas have older cars that produces lead in to the air, and the population ends up breathing a lot of it?

You have been downvoted, but you have a point. In the 1970s, you could buy both leaded and unleaded gas at service stations. New cars used unleaded gas, but old ones "required" leaded for various reasons that turned out to be mostly wrong (http://www.stevelinden.com/unleaded-gas-vs-regular-gas-in-cl...). Unleaded was required to work with the catalytic converters that were newly required in cars.

Regular leaded gas was cheaper. My neighbor had the catalytic converter in his car removed (it was illegal) so he could use the cheaper leaded gas.

So there would be an effect in which old cars imply more lead.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#48

Lead paint and lead gasoline are shocking examples of corporate misbehavior. Interior lead paint was banned in many European countries by the 1920s because of the obvious health risks. But in the US the lead manufactures responded to health concerns with "Dutch Boy" lead paint, deliberately marketed to appear safe enough for a child to use. They actually had advertising campaigns promoting lead paint for childrens' t…

Interesting, I hadn't realized the first bans were as early as the 1920s. Researching a bit now, it seems like concerns were raised by at least the 19th century, and were pretty solid by the early 20th, which is not at all how I've heard it presented previously. I had previously assumed that it was not really known to science until the 1960s or so, which seems untrue. From what I've found in some quick digging, it se…

Lead might just have been the first corporate PRS bullshit show, before even tobacco. And just like tobacco (and AGW these days) they were very successful in suppressing or casting aspersions of evidence.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#49
post #42
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New cars are required to be fitted with catalytic converters that reduce pollutants.

Those help burn stuff like hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide in the exhaust. It's unrelated to lead.

Not entirely unrelated. Exhaust catalysts are easily "poisoned," by lead among other things. Leaded gasoline would do it, so modern catalysts would never have been fitted to cars permitted to run leaded gasoline (very relevant during the time when both leaded and unleaded were available). Or put another way, the "unleaded only" signs you see on some older cars was not because the cars wouldn't run, but because running leaded gasoline would quickly degrade the emissions control equipment (oxygen sensors and catalysts primarily)

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#50

You know, we really ought to rename Tantalum->Lead, and Lead->Tantalum. Can someone clarify what the last part of the article was saying? In some hotspots - downwind from old smelters, or where miners dumped their spoils - it can be as high as 3%. Does that seriously mean you could scoop a handful of dirt and 3% of that would be lead?!

Yes, though I expect it's 3% by mass, so for 1kg of soil you get 30g of lead (30000ppm).

For reference, uncontaminated natural soil averages 10ppm.

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