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The fatal attraction of lead

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Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#31

Post by decktech »

cmatteri wrote: post #27

The use of leaded paint indoors and of leaded gasoline were particularly dangerous, but there are still numerous potential sources of lead exposure, especially in certain industries, but also for the average person. Exposure has decreased, but the safe blood lead level has also been reduced as we become increasingly aware of the harms of sub-clinical lead poisoning. Two interesting properties of lead's toxicity that…

From what I was told, lead-free solder has a large amount of flux in it to make it half-way usable. Unless you're licking your fingers after soldering with leaded solder, you may be doing more damage to your lungs with the lead-free stuff than you're doing to your body with the leaded. But I'd love to see the numbers on this.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#32

Post by mikeash »

idlewords wrote: post #18
dctoedt wrote: post #3

I wonder if leaded gasoline is playing any kind of role in the continued unrest in the Middle East? FTA: Chronic lead exposure causes depression, headaches, aggression and memory loss. .... [M]any academics now believe leaded petrol was responsible for a global crime wave that peaked in the 1990s. ... Amazingly, a handful of countries - Iraq, Yemen, Burma, North Korea - continue to use leaded petrol.

"Unrest in the Middle East" is a blanket phrase so broad as to be meaningless. What specific conflict do you have in mind? Keep in mind that the number of vehicles per capita is much lower in Iraq and Yemen (the only two countries you mention) than in the United States. Your comment rubs me the wrong way since it speaks to a mindset where complicated geopolitical problems can be solved or explained by a simple hack.…

If it were truly a simple hack, it would already be done, since the health benefits are well known.

Getting these countries to stop burning leaded gasoline sounds like a fairly hard problem to me, just from the fact that they keep doing it. A sibling poster mentions how many problems have had simple solutions, like vitamin C for scurvy, which is true in the abstract but they all took quite a lot of fighting to implement.

Now, I doubt that lead is a significant factor here. But even if it were and it could be demonstrated, would it really be "simple"?

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#33

Post by ianlevesque »

johnward wrote: post #19
4ad wrote: post #2

In Romania they used to still use lead plumbing until the early 2000s! As a kid, I loved that stuff, so maleable, you could do so many things from it, and it melted so easily. I loved to melt it and cast into into various shapes.

I remember chewing on some lead fishing sinkers once or twice before my dad told me I was an idiot and playing with mercury one time when I broke a thermometer. I just wonder what "safe" things we use daily that we'll look back and say wtf were we thinking?

Flame retardant furniture and children's clothing is a likely candidate.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#34

Post by mikeash »

Spooky23 wrote: post #30
4ad wrote: post #2

In Romania they used to still use lead plumbing until the early 2000s! As a kid, I loved that stuff, so maleable, you could do so many things from it, and it melted so easily. I loved to melt it and cast into into various shapes.

Lead pipes are very common in american cities for connecting residential service lines to water mains. Lead flux was also commonly used to seal drain pipes.

I'd thought that lead water pipes were safe due to mineral buildup that shields them, but apparently this is not universally the case. Quoth Wikipedia:

"Unlike other parts of the world where lead pipes cause poisoning, the Roman water had so much calcium in it, that a layer of plaque prevented the water contacting the lead itself."

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#35

Post by mikeash »

notastartup wrote: post #21

The crime rate correlation with lead tainted gasoline is fascinating. Could it be that in lower socioeconomic areas have older cars that produces lead in to the air, and the population ends up breathing a lot of it?

Lead emissions come from the gasoline that's burned, not the cars burning it. Once leaded gasoline was eliminated, lead emissions from cars ceased.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#36

Post by unimpressive »

comrade1 wrote: post #7

And it tastes so so sweet... When my friends and I were children we found pieces of lead while dumpster diving. Probably 5 pounds of it. We taught ourselves how to make plaster-of-paris molds and tried to counterfeit the most important thing to us - video game tokens from the local arcade. We made only a handful of tokens before we realized the effort was more than the payoff. We had to rebuild the mold each time and…

>Did anyone else experience the purple acrid smoke at the back of your throat?

Of nitrogen tri no. But soldering and having lead smoke blow back into your face is not a pleasant experience in the slightest. And the taste is so bitter, at least as much as it is sweet. It stays in your mouth all day too, you'll be going to sleep with bitter sweet still on your tongue.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#37

Post by rodgerd »

kirsebaer wrote: post #14

Lead paint and lead gasoline are shocking examples of corporate misbehavior. Interior lead paint was banned in many European countries by the 1920s because of the obvious health risks. But in the US the lead manufactures responded to health concerns with "Dutch Boy" lead paint, deliberately marketed to appear safe enough for a child to use. They actually had advertising campaigns promoting lead paint for childrens' t…

> The health risks of leaded gasoline were also obvious to many, and ethanol was known as a safe alternative anti-knock additive in the 1920s.

FTA: "Midgley spent months plagued by the effects of lead poisoning. GM's ethyl plant in New Jersey, meanwhile, was forced to close after several workers went mad and some died. The press renamed ethyl "looney gas". "

And yet it continued to be used for decades. A lesson, I guess, in the power of wealthy industries to be allowed to do whatever damage they want.

Also FTA: ". It was Midgley who invented chlorofluorocarbons - CFCs..."

One guy gave us CFCs and lead additives to petrol? Thanks. Thanks a bunch.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#38

Post by cmatteri »

decktech wrote: post #31
cmatteri wrote: post #27

The use of leaded paint indoors and of leaded gasoline were particularly dangerous, but there are still numerous potential sources of lead exposure, especially in certain industries, but also for the average person. Exposure has decreased, but the safe blood lead level has also been reduced as we become increasingly aware of the harms of sub-clinical lead poisoning. Two interesting properties of lead's toxicity that…

From what I was told, lead-free solder has a large amount of flux in it to make it half-way usable. Unless you're licking your fingers after soldering with leaded solder, you may be doing more damage to your lungs with the lead-free stuff than you're doing to your body with the leaded. But I'd love to see the numbers on this.

I believe it contains on the order of twice as much flux, but I can't find a source for that at the moment. So I don't think flux fumes are much more of a concern than with leaded solder (for which you should have good ventilation or a fan). I did have a ball of solder shoot towards me when I was first getting a feel for it, so you definitely need safety glasses, though I understand this can occur with leaded solder as well, and you want to wear glasses anyways to keep clipped leads out of your eyes.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#39

Post by reitanqild »

comrade1 wrote: post #7

And it tastes so so sweet... When my friends and I were children we found pieces of lead while dumpster diving. Probably 5 pounds of it. We taught ourselves how to make plaster-of-paris molds and tried to counterfeit the most important thing to us - video game tokens from the local arcade. We made only a handful of tokens before we realized the effort was more than the payoff. We had to rebuild the mold each time and…

> Making nitrogen tri-iodide in high-school had a much better payoff

http://m.instructables.com/id/Nitrogen-Triiodide/

Hmmm. Sometimes I think I should learn a few of those tricks my old teachers used. I attribute a lot of my interest for math, physics and chemistry to the fact that ny teacher used to blow stuff up, make fountains of liquids changing colors inside erlenmeyer flasks etc.

Re: The fatal attraction of lead

#40

Post by j1o1h1n »

rodgerd wrote: post #37
kirsebaer wrote: post #14

Lead paint and lead gasoline are shocking examples of corporate misbehavior. Interior lead paint was banned in many European countries by the 1920s because of the obvious health risks. But in the US the lead manufactures responded to health concerns with "Dutch Boy" lead paint, deliberately marketed to appear safe enough for a child to use. They actually had advertising campaigns promoting lead paint for childrens' t…

> The health risks of leaded gasoline were also obvious to many, and ethanol was known as a safe alternative anti-knock additive in the 1920s. FTA: "Midgley spent months plagued by the effects of lead poisoning. GM's ethyl plant in New Jersey, meanwhile, was forced to close after several workers went mad and some died. The press renamed ethyl "looney gas". " And yet it continued to be used for decades. A lesson, I gu…

Nyarlathotep at it again.
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