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What makes for a stable marriage?

randalolson.com

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Re: What makes for a stable marriage?

#131

Post by disallusioned42 »

Mz wrote: post #111
disallusioned42 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's definitely a common reason. But I actually feel that it's one of the worst ones, and that kids would be much better off if the parents calmly explaining their decision to the kids in a positive way, thereby sparing them the pain, conflict, and at the very least unhapiness that staying together would likely bring.

Some kids need two parents more than others. My ex and I stayed together as long as we did in part "for the kids." He physically moved out about a month before our oldest turned 18. I think we did the right thing. I have health problems and two special needs sons. My oldest was quite challenging to raise. I have reason to believe that divorcing sooner would have been catastrophic and potentially deadly for one or mor…

My comment is intended to be taken broadly on average. Based on what you say here, I would agree with you that staying married might have been a better choice in your specific situation.

Re: What makes for a stable marriage?

#132

Post by [deleted] »

genwin wrote: post #73
Wintamute wrote: post #68

Slightly off topic, but I'm genuinely curious why forward-thinking secular people in the west still want to get married. Historically, and still in many parts of the world, its arguably an incredibly sexist tradition that has its roots in religious and patriarchal control. In many ways it has been completely re-defined, at least in the west, and doesn't have any/many of those connotations any more - but it begs the q…

There are gov't benefits to being married. For example, when one spouse dies the joint assets don't need to go through probate.

[deleted]

Re: What makes for a stable marriage?

#133

Post by mgbmtl »

baddox wrote: post #124
mgbmtl wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the "cultural momentum" of marriage, it varies a lot from one region to the other. For example in Canada, between Ontario and Quebec (in Canada), these 2009 stats are pretty interesting: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/84f0210x/2009000/t006-eng.htm In short, in Quebec today, less than half of kids born are from non-married parents. Marriage is seen by many as irrelevant, bureaucratic, peer-pressure consumerist obliga…

I think you mean that in Quebec more than half of kids born are from non-married parents.

erm, yes :)

Re: What makes for a stable marriage?

#134

Post by baddox »

disallusioned42 wrote: post #130
baddox wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm either an unreasonable person, or in the minority of reasonable people. To me, "stable" does not imply happy; it merely means unlikely to change or collapse. A "stable building," for example, would be one that is structurally sound, not one that houses wholesome activities or makes people happy. Also, just look at every single chart and data point mentioned in the article. All are about one dependent vari…

I'm assuming that most people are more interested in happy marriages than stable ones (at least before they've made the commitment). Now the marriage traditionalists might not. (This seems to be supported by at least one or two of the people posting here. But at the same time, one of them still mentions "happily-ever-after".) Even going back to the Declaration of Independence we see "pursuit of happiness" mentioned p…

> I'm assuming that most people are more interested in happy marriages than stable ones (at least before they've made the commitment).

That's a very reasonable assumption. But it's also reasonable to analyse divorce rate data. You can't just assume that anyone studying marriage will only be studying how to keep marriages happy. I don't see any claim that this study is the ultimate study on marriage.

Re: What makes for a stable marriage?

#135

Post by PhantomGremlin »

ScottBurson wrote: post #105

About a decade ago, the gossip on everyone’s lips was that “1/2 of all marriages in the U.S. end in divorce.” That factoid was later disproven[0] Whoa, not so fast. If you follow the link, you'll see that it wasn't disproven at all. Rather, the linked article attempts to supplant this statistic with a different one: the fraction of people who get married who ever divorce. The difference between the two statistics com…

An even more cynical view is:

   50% of marriages end in divorce,
   the other 50% end in death.
   Mazel tov.
I just had to post that, one of my favorite quips. I'm in my 20th year of marriage.

Re: What makes for a stable marriage?

#136

Post by disallusioned42 »

jasonparker wrote: post #37
themartorana wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's not really such a thing as a bad marriage so much as selfish participants This is absurd. It's constructed of a series of suppositions, only a few of which I'll address. First is that people are static. This simply isn't true. We all know that we all change - not just in age, wisdom, and so on, but in tastes, politics, religious dedication, and the lines we draw between wrong and right, just to name a few.…

Gotta disagree with you: marriage is a contract, forsaking all others, so long as you both shall live. Divorce means your word is worthless, and that your own wants are more important than your word. It IS a personal failure, but go ahead, rationalize all you want.

People are more important than promises. The only reason we value promises is because they make life in general better for people. I've personally experienced and seen multiple others in the situation where ending the marriage really truly was the best thing for both parties. In these cases, your strict adherence to word/contract is patently absurd and creates nothing but pain and suffering.

Re: What makes for a stable marriage?

#137

Post by pdpi »

smoyer wrote: post #70
pdpi wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me and my wife often say about our marriage that neither of us believes in Happily Ever After. There's no such thing as a point at which you stop having to work on the relationship.

Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic but I'd rather say "Let's work to build our happily-ever-after". Same idea from the positive angle.

The point is that there is no happily ever after because "Happily ever after" is how the story ends, and this story hasn't ended.

Re: What makes for a stable marriage?

#138

Post by [deleted] »

Xcelerate wrote: post #45
themartorana wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's not really such a thing as a bad marriage so much as selfish participants This is absurd. It's constructed of a series of suppositions, only a few of which I'll address. First is that people are static. This simply isn't true. We all know that we all change - not just in age, wisdom, and so on, but in tastes, politics, religious dedication, and the lines we draw between wrong and right, just to name a few.…

> series of suppositions ... First is that people are static. I don't know of anyone who believes people are static. You even say yourself in the next sentence "We all know that we all change". No one (at least that I'm aware of) goes into marriage expecting the person they marry to stay the same over time. Another HN poster (can't remember who) put it beautifully once: marriage is an agreement to learn to love the p…

[deleted]

Re: What makes for a stable marriage?

#139

Post by ezy »

Xcelerate wrote: post #71
jjoonathan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> marriage is an agreement to learn to love the person that each of you become over time The supposition that it is always possible to learn to love the other person is as ridiculous as the supposition that people are static. > If both people are in agreement that they might change and get divorced later before the marriage begins, then fine with me. Everyone who gets married knows that the possibility of divorce exi…

> The supposition that it is always possible to learn to love the other person is as ridiculous as the supposition that people are static. No it's not. What do you support that statement with? > Everyone who gets married knows that the possibility of divorce exists and roughly what divorce proceedings entail. > I would wager that very few people are as hot-to-trot as you are on the notion of honor in contract literal…

I think you're a little quick on the trigger, it's not just cheaters who assume that people cheat, it's also people who have been cheated upon or lied to.

In general, I think this is asymmetrical. People who have never had to deal with complexity in their lives, tend to assume that people can live by simple rules. Until they discover that the world doesn't work that way. Usually by getting their naive ass bitten.

They don't call them realists for no reason. (Yes, I know, spoken like a realist :-)). I don't place much value on the opinions of people who tell me how perfect they or their family is -- usually they avoid digging too far into the fascade because their self-worth is tied to how well they and their group (family) perform whatever role they are holding up as ideal.

Re: What makes for a stable marriage?

#140

Post by moggflunkies »

gus_massa wrote: post #97
linguafranca wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience, the happiest marriages are of people who don't just "go" to church, but actually try to "live" their church's teachings in all areas of their lives. Churches usually promote selflessness, sacrifice, honesty, gentleness, and sincere love. So it's a recipe for happiness inside or out of marriage, but especially inside marriage.

YMMV. Other churches promote killing everyone that don't believe in the same god, or believe in the same god but have a method to pray, or has other social habits. I think that it's not a problem of a specific religion. Most religion has peaceful periods but 300 years later the "same" religion has a violent period and 300 year later the "same" religion is peaceful again, ... And sometimes, some members of the same ch…

Sad to see a thoughtful community down vote something that is totally factual. I suppose we aren't free of the racism and religious intolerance.
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