40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs • Hacker News Board

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#101

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 7:29 PM UTC

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #95

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confusing or equalizing suicide with euthanasia; the former is, in this case, a mental issue triggered by chemical inbalances (which in turn are often due to external causes), and as the people that have been through depression can attest to, a temporary one. Suicide in that case can be listed as a temporary lapse in judgment. Euthanasia, on the other hand, is a conscious choice, often by the terminall…

I think you're confusing depression with temporary sadness. Depression is a terminal illness.

Chronic yes, terminal no.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#102

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 7:36 PM UTC

lmz wrote: post #49

cldellow wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More nuance, please! I think most women have thought about abortion to some degree and formed an opinion on whether it's the right choice for them, or under what conditions they would entertain the idea of an abortion versus keeping the child in an unexpected pregnancy. In these cases, you're right: discouraging women who have thought about the process would be seen as in bad taste. But what if the woman was being pr…

I think most people who choose to commit suicide have given it a good few months or more of thinking. How long do people have to suffer in order for you to say "this person's done enough thinking about it, he can go"?

Speaking from experience, I disagree. I'm in favor of a generalized right to commit suicide as a fundamental ground of self-determination, but it can often be a compulsive rather a considered action; furthermore it can be based on a fundamentally irrational discounting of the future ('I'll never be happy again, my life can only get worse') which may be merely temporary or the result of developmental delays/deficits in handling emotional swings.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#103

Post by mindcrime » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 7:57 PM UTC

bproctor wrote: post #22

I probably have an unpopular opinion on this, but I feel that people who wish to commit suicide should not be prevented from doing so. By all means, if someone wants to get help or needs counseling they should be able to get it. But if in the end their choice is suicide, we should be making it easier for them, not harder. I think that if I ever wanted to commit suicide I would be less likely to seek counseling out of…

FWIW, I agree with the general sentiment of your comment. If somebody has truly decided that the suffering they are experiencing outweighs whatever joy they experience from life, and they want to get off this ride, then they absolutely have the right to do so.

Of course not everybody who thinks they want to die is being rational at the time, and I'm all for making treatment, counseling, etc. available... but speaking for myself, I know that if/when I ever decide that I want out, I don't want anybody presuming some authorization to interfere with me.

So yeah, put me in the "right to die" camp.

But us humans, we have to suffer to the very end. Why?

Because it's a cultural meme that "human life is sacrosanct and must be preserved at all cost" or whatever. It's really pretty silly when you think about it.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#104

Post by ninguem2 » Fri, Oct 10, 2014, 9:23 PM UTC

ux-app wrote: post #81

lmz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I am too. I am not anti abortion I am pro voluntary suicide. "Just go to therapy it will be better" vs "Give the baby a chance you might grow to love it". How is it any different?

Suicide in otherwise healthy individuals is (imo) a mental health issue. Abortion is not. Your initial comment that I responded to implied that discouraging suicide is or should be in bad taste. I don't agree with this statement. My position is predicated on the assumption that life is better than death.

What kind of mental health issue do the people in the article below have?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-seeds-of-suicide-how-monsan...

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#105

Post by npizzolato » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 1:05 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #3

ssprang wrote: post #2

Briggs saw the worst of this during suicide crises on the bridge when drivers passing by would yell out, "Go ahead and jump." Despicable.

Regrettably this behavior appears to be protected by the first amendment, unless suicide itself is made illegal (as it used to be in many jurisdictions). A law criminalizing such behavior in Minnesota was reversed at appeal: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/03/19/encouraging-suicide-isnt... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Francis_Melchert-Dinkel I can't politely express my opinion about people like this.

> Regrettably this behavior appears to be protected by the first amendment,

Good. Free speech is far too important to restrict based on the actions of a few assholes.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#106

Post by npizzolato » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 1:08 AM UTC

gadders wrote: post #7

I read an article once that said that when suicide was illegal in the UK, the rate was a lot lower. I'm not sure if that was true or not, but as a thought experiment: if making suicide illegal lowered it's occurrance, would you support that?

I don't know how you would possibly go about making suicide illegal, but punishing those left behind sounds like the worst possible "solution" to suicide.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#107

Post by dubfan » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 1:29 AM UTC

npizzolato wrote: post #105

anigbrowl wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regrettably this behavior appears to be protected by the first amendment, unless suicide itself is made illegal (as it used to be in many jurisdictions). A law criminalizing such behavior in Minnesota was reversed at appeal: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/03/19/encouraging-suicide-isnt... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Francis_Melchert-Dinkel I can't politely express my opinion about people like this.

> Regrettably this behavior appears to be protected by the first amendment, Good. Free speech is far too important to restrict based on the actions of a few assholes.

The best thing about free speech is that it lets us identify assholes easily.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#108

Post by a8da6b0c91d » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 2:51 AM UTC

_pslf wrote: post #99

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By what right You assume 100% self ownership of one's life, which I find silly. Society makes large investments in individuals and typically they have long term duties that cannot rightfully be abandoned.

So it's not out of compassion that you'd want to talk anyone out of suicide, but because they owe you/society something? Also consider the chances that someone who wants to kill himself isn't too pleased with what "society" did for/to him.

On the contrary, I think people are most often suicidal because they fail to perceive their role in society as meaningful. To the extent this happens it is because of deep-seated problems in modern industrialism c.f. Ted Kaczynski. The cracks are just far too large in modern economic systems. Public social welfare programs play a large role in disconnecting people from their kin and neighbors; it becomes easy to feel irrelevant in supporting others.

The failures of modern industrial capitalism and social programs don't change the the underlying reality of suicide, however. It is a form of desertion, or dereliction of duty. This is more apparent in smaller scale societies.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#109

Post by pravda » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 3:39 AM UTC

gadders wrote: post #53

ninguem2 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a terrible idea. What are the consequences? Punishment for those who attempt and fail or punishment for the families of those who succeed by denying them life insurance, proper burial and so on.

I think people who tried and failed may have been punished. AFAIK, life insurance has never paid out for suicide and doesn't now.

>life insurance has never paid out for suicide and doesn't now.

In the USA, life insurance does cover suicide, as long as it is not within 2 years of the issue date.

Re: 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs

#110

Post by jczhang » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 6:10 AM UTC

A month ago I was in San Diego and a homeless guy walking past me told me he was trying he kill himself and was looking for the path to the bridge. He kept walking, passing by a police officer. I told the police officer he might want to keep an eye on the guy and told him that he was trying to kill himself. The officer just said, "He should try harder." I was shocked.