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Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

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Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#81
post #42
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a tricky position to take, as a political habit. The problem with defining 'worker happiness' some way is that if unhappiness entitles you to something unhappiness can be achieved. What about the happiness of those who would like to be a worker, but can't because it conflicts with existing worker happiness? Workers are ann entrenched interest group (or even class, to borrow more Marxist language) and they are…

But here's precisely the role of politics. If more workers would mean no one can make a sustenance, then maybe it's society's role to tell the newcomers, "look for something else". Or maybe it's the opposite, and when all interests are considered, it's best to let the incumbents shave a few percents off their income. But this kind of decision is exactly what politics is for. I wouldn't want to let a Silicon Valley br…

I don't understand this approach. It's as if we'd never seen politics or economics in action and therefore our best guess comes from musings.

Democracy does not equal the will or the good of the people in some hermetically perfect way. The reality is that in both economics and democracy entrenched culture, institutions and interest groups gain power. They guard it and enlarge it. They quickly develop the belief that they are entitled to it.

The 'good of society' even if it could be understood objectively is not represented in the volumes of trade policy enacted into legislation after months of committees, "consultations" and such.

Political power is the oldest currency. You call innovation a euphemism used to justify things. I call these authorities euphemism.

Incidentally, I lean very left on a lot of things. I am a European. I am pro-EU and I think that the true goals of the EU, solidarity, peace and open borders are a genuinely worthy goal. What I reject is this rule-by-beaurocracy mindset enabling and encouraging letters of objection to your neighbor's lawn furniture.

In any case, it's very easy to launch accusations from your 1,000m high, drone's eye view that these people should just shave a percentage off their margin. It's not about shaving a few percentages point. It's about shaving themselves out of existence in order to allow old, decrepit and corrupt institutions another few years at the trough.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course they are a taxi company and they are playing a game of words in pretending not to be. The reason that they do so is that the licensing rules for taxis protect the incumbents from new entrants.

Licensing/quotas/medallions etc. are horrible ideas. Uber is doing right for breaking into these markets, pretending to be taxis but saying they aren't. So for all the other markets, where there is no medallion system or other barrier for entry to the market (other than "expected" things like insurance etc.), that is where Uber is just a taxi. And here they don't even SAY they aren't taxis. My guess: taxi license/med…

> My guess: taxi license/medallions are a relic that is bound to disappear pretty quickly. Since in some places people have to BUY these things, it's obviously not going to be done overnight.

I agree, however until they lawfully become a thing of the past is not fair to people who have bought them (or followed the possibly lengthy procedure of getting licensed)

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#83
post #59
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think Uber is an "innovation"? It's simply an unregulated, unsafe and uninsured taxi service. It's just like those illegal scalpers offering rides in any airport, except with a smartphone app. That's not innovation (useful and popular taxi apps existed before Uber), and whatever it is, it's not being stifled. Uber is free to apply for permits just like everyone else. I think that instead of being sad you s…

> unsafe and uninsured What are your citations for those bold claims? The first one is subjective, and the second one seems objectively false: http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance

They changed their coverage only recently after being pressured by the public and the government to do so: http://time.com/25397/uber-lyft-sidecar-insurance/ (and regulations will soon force them to do so). I'm not sure what the situation in Europe is, but the Uber's wording suggests that only actual rides are insured.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#84
post #79
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does "government" know exactly when to tell people to look for something else? Do you think it's possible that the "insiders" might try and influence the state to get them to tell that to newcomers in order to gain a bigger share of the pie for themselves?

> How does "government" know exactly when to tell people to look for something else? I'm not sure why you put government in quotations, but the government doesn't know ; it's supposed to decide through bargaining. > Do you think it's possible that the "insiders" might try and influence the state to get them to tell that to newcomers in order to gain a bigger share of the pie for themselves? Sure, but that's the name…

I'm certainly not someone who has bought into the 'Austrian school' of economics, nor "market fundamentalism" in other forms, but some of their ideas were pretty good:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

And as a consequence I think that markets are a more efficient way of calculating some things like "how many people should be taxi drivers" than government planning.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Licensing/quotas/medallions etc. are horrible ideas. Uber is doing right for breaking into these markets, pretending to be taxis but saying they aren't. So for all the other markets, where there is no medallion system or other barrier for entry to the market (other than "expected" things like insurance etc.), that is where Uber is just a taxi. And here they don't even SAY they aren't taxis. My guess: taxi license/med…

> My guess: taxi license/medallions are a relic that is bound to disappear pretty quickly. Since in some places people have to BUY these things, it's obviously not going to be done overnight. I agree, however until they lawfully become a thing of the past is not fair to people who have bought them (or followed the possibly lengthy procedure of getting licensed)

It will be hard to maintain the current structure when Uber can offer a better, cheaper service.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#86
post #81
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But here's precisely the role of politics. If more workers would mean no one can make a sustenance, then maybe it's society's role to tell the newcomers, "look for something else". Or maybe it's the opposite, and when all interests are considered, it's best to let the incumbents shave a few percents off their income. But this kind of decision is exactly what politics is for. I wouldn't want to let a Silicon Valley br…

I don't understand this approach. It's as if we'd never seen politics or economics in action and therefore our best guess comes from musings. Democracy does not equal the will or the good of the people in some hermetically perfect way. The reality is that in both economics and democracy entrenched culture, institutions and interest groups gain power. They guard it and enlarge it. They quickly develop the belief that…

Yeah, democracy sucks, but being ruled by VCs carrying the BS banner of "innovation" is far worse. What you see as corrupt institutions, I see as the possibly outdated results of many years of political bargaining, which -- like everything else -- requires the occasional shakeup. But I'd much rather this shakeup happen as a result of new, better, interest groups forming, than as a result of companies who have zero interests other than their own profit.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#87
post #84
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does "government" know exactly when to tell people to look for something else? I'm not sure why you put government in quotations, but the government doesn't know ; it's supposed to decide through bargaining. > Do you think it's possible that the "insiders" might try and influence the state to get them to tell that to newcomers in order to gain a bigger share of the pie for themselves? Sure, but that's the name…

I'm certainly not someone who has bought into the 'Austrian school' of economics, nor "market fundamentalism" in other forms, but some of their ideas were pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem And as a consequence I think that markets are a more efficient way of calculating some things like "how many people should be taxi drivers" than government planning.

Government planning and government regulation are two very different things. Regulation is an iterative process, where the market is allowed to determine some things, and then society tries to correct the flaws and to better direct the outcome. The economy is like a river that starts out as a natural process (or, at least something that's hard to control), and along its flow, people may divert it or dam it to make sure it provides the desired benefit and to prevent possible harm it may cause.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#88
post #2

> How they will do this in a city with thousands of cars is a different question, and authorities haven’t given any details on how they will try to find Uber cars in the streets of Madrid. Easy. Undercover inspectors just book an Uber ride. Soon as they step into the vehicle, they present ID and fine the driver.

I don't think it's that "easy." Uber could easily develop a way to detect such users and block them.

Silicon Valley tech companies rarely spend a lot of time caring about the rest of the world. Uber won't bother that much.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#89
post #17

As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a…

When people talk about 'heavy regulation', they don't usually specify what regulations they are actually talking about. In Germany for example, Uber is in trouble because they are not ensuring that their drivers are insured (a normal private car insurance won't cover commercial operation) and not ensuring that the vehicles have the required level of mechanical safety checks (commercial vehicles require more regular t…

Their idea of "disruption" is to ignore the law. And yet the US companies want us to obey their copyright law on media that they won't sell us.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#90
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people talk about 'heavy regulation', they don't usually specify what regulations they are actually talking about. In Germany for example, Uber is in trouble because they are not ensuring that their drivers are insured (a normal private car insurance won't cover commercial operation) and not ensuring that the vehicles have the required level of mechanical safety checks (commercial vehicles require more regular t…

> Hands up who on HN thinks filling our roads with uninsured drivers is a good thing? Hands up who thinks mandatory checks on vehicles brakes and other basic safety systems is a bad thing? I think I see pg's hand at the back there. But in general the vast vast majority of people think mandatory insurance is a good idea. That's why nearly all developed countries require it by law. The thing is that instead of making t…

Regulation =/= limited monopoly. Ireland requires taxi licences, but gives them out cheaply to anyone.
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