Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

novobrief.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 102 posts

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#41

Post by sveme »

piokoch wrote: post #17

As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a…

This. Many commentators especially in Germany are complaining about the lack of a will to innovate, yet uber is nothing new under the sun. They pretend to be part of a sharing economy, yet charge more than the fuel costs of a trip, which is the quintessential difference to ride sharing. They are simply a global taxi company with a fancy app that is trying to benefit from not being regulated by claiming to be something new - ride sharing.

They are a taxi company so should have to follow the same regulations as all the other taxi companies.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#42

Post by pron »

netcan wrote: post #40
pron wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also I've empathy for those who want to make use of Uber services. It's not easy to make justice to all of them at the same time. Well, it depends on your culture and perspective, of course. To me, the answer is almost always clear and obvious: when there's a conflict between the worker's happiness and the consumer's happiness, the worker comes first. Society's role is to ensure its members can make a respectable l…

That's a tricky position to take, as a political habit. The problem with defining 'worker happiness' some way is that if unhappiness entitles you to something unhappiness can be achieved. What about the happiness of those who would like to be a worker, but can't because it conflicts with existing worker happiness? Workers are ann entrenched interest group (or even class, to borrow more Marxist language) and they are…

But here's precisely the role of politics. If more workers would mean no one can make a sustenance, then maybe it's society's role to tell the newcomers, "look for something else". Or maybe it's the opposite, and when all interests are considered, it's best to let the incumbents shave a few percents off their income. But this kind of decision is exactly what politics is for. I wouldn't want to let a Silicon Valley brat with tons of VC money behind him to decide that for me in the name of "innovation" (here we're starting to see how "innovation" is being used as an instrument to restrict freedom).

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#43

Post by omonra »

pron wrote: post #39
_yosefk wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean typewriter manufacturers should have been kept afloat forever using taxpayers' funds so as to not fire workers? (That's what "the worker comes first" despite the consumer not wanting the product would mean, I think. If not, then the question is where you draw the line and how you measure the harm done to the average worker when he is forced to support other workers who are unproductive compared to available…

Common sense and politics[1] usually provide the answer. I'm not talking about keeping dead industries afloat, but protecting certain necessary ventures through regulation, to ensure that the workers get compensated fairly for their required service. It is better to have customers wait another 3 minutes for a taxi, than taxi drivers not being able to make ends meet. The important thing to remember is that we aren't s…

But clearly the issue here is not compensation for the workers. The issue is cost of license. Consider this hypothetical:

1. Country A - taxi license costs $300,000. Average ride costs $30, driver keeps $10 after paying off the license mortgage.

2. Country B - taxi license costs $100. Average ride costs $15, driver keeps $15 since he doesn't have to pay it off.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#44

Post by RBerenguel »

huehue wrote: post #37
RBerenguel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you have taken taxis in Spain, but all taxis I've taken in Barcelona are incredibly clean and the drivers are incredibly efficient (given that I'm Spanish and know the best routes for these trips, too, of course)

Just upon arriving to Barajas Airport in Madrid, I went outside to the taxi area and could delight myself with taxis not respecting the queue (allowing clients instead of referring them to the head of the queue) and the image of two taxi drivers fist fighting for some clients. Yup. Not to mention they wanted to charge me over 100 euros for going from the Airport to the main train station. From my experience the taxi…

In Barcelona there is someone taking care of the queue always (I think if a taxi driver allowed clients without due respect to the queue he'd lose airport access rights, so lose a lot of money), and the price for airport-City centre is written in the windows so you see it before entering (and also seen in the inside, it's a fixed price with minor variability depending on day of the week) So, from what I've seen here it's unlikely I'll be taking taxis in Madrid, but will keep using Barcelona taxis when I need them.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#46

Post by mithras »

RBerenguel wrote: post #29
oldspiceman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't agree with your point here. It's extremely common to get ripped off by taxis in Spain. There is no incentive for them to be agreeable with foreigners.

Not in Barcelona, at least, since fare prices are shown in the windows (IIRC this is also the norm in the UK, and I thought this was also done Spain-wide, but it's been a while since I took a taxi outside of Barcelona.) Of course, nothing prevents the taxi from driving around needlessly. But this can happen anywhere, Uber or no Uber.

When I took a taxi in barcelona the taxi driver held my luggage hostage and insisted on a flat fee instead of the meter when we arrived at the destination. I had no working mobile phone so there was not much I could do but pay him.

An anecdote but I doubt it's the only time that happened.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#47

Post by chrisseaton »

alkonaut wrote: post #24
piokoch wrote: post #17

As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a…

Same in Stockholm, Uber isnt some revolutionary new method of transportation, it's another taxi co among hundreds. The app+payment is the only thing that sets them apart, but apps of course exist for a handful of the other largest taxi companies.

Doesn't Uber use considerably nicer cars than any other taxi service? When I get an Uber in London it's a very new and clean spacious black car, not your standard taxi. And the drivers are far more polite (they don't try to ask me about football for example).

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#48

Post by anon1385 »

piokoch wrote: post #17

As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a…

When people talk about 'heavy regulation', they don't usually specify what regulations they are actually talking about. In Germany for example, Uber is in trouble because they are not ensuring that their drivers are insured (a normal private car insurance won't cover commercial operation) and not ensuring that the vehicles have the required level of mechanical safety checks (commercial vehicles require more regular tests because they do far more miles).

When you peel away the vague and emotive language of 'heavy regulation' to look at the actual issues then suddenly things look quite different.

Hands up who on HN thinks filling our roads with uninsured drivers is a good thing? Hands up who thinks mandatory checks on vehicles brakes and other basic safety systems is a bad thing? I think I see pg's hand at the back there. But in general the vast vast majority of people think mandatory insurance is a good idea. That's why nearly all developed countries require it by law.

Uber don't want to actually come out and say 'our drivers are not insured', but make no mistake, thats the kind of thing Uber and SV VCs are talking about when they complain about 'red tape' and 'regulation' and 'lack of entrepreneurial spirit'. Ignoring insurance laws makes it easier for them to undercut law abiding and sociably responsible competitors, and they want to continue to get away with it.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#49

Post by onion2k »

w1ntermute wrote: post #21
rmc wrote: post #2

> How they will do this in a city with thousands of cars is a different question, and authorities haven’t given any details on how they will try to find Uber cars in the streets of Madrid. Easy. Undercover inspectors just book an Uber ride. Soon as they step into the vehicle, they present ID and fine the driver.

I don't think it's that "easy." Uber could easily develop a way to detect such users and block them.

The authorities wouldn't need to be successful very often. So long as there's a possibility of a large fine the number of drivers would start to fall. If it falls to a level where getting an Uber car takes too long the customers will leave, and then Uber withdraw because they aren't making any money if there aren't any customers.

If 1% of Uber drivers are fined leads to 50% of drivers being scared away that could be enough to stop Uber completely.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#50

Post by james1071 »

sveme wrote: post #41
piokoch wrote: post #17

As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a…

This. Many commentators especially in Germany are complaining about the lack of a will to innovate, yet uber is nothing new under the sun. They pretend to be part of a sharing economy, yet charge more than the fuel costs of a trip, which is the quintessential difference to ride sharing. They are simply a global taxi company with a fancy app that is trying to benefit from not being regulated by claiming to be somethin…

Yes, of course they are a taxi company and they are playing a game of words in pretending not to be.

The reason that they do so is that the licensing rules for taxis protect the incumbents from new entrants.

Post reply on HN