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Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

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Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#71

Post by raldi »

icebraining wrote: post #65
raldi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unsafe and uninsured What are your citations for those bold claims? The first one is subjective, and the second one seems objectively false: http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance

That's for UberX in the US, the discussion is about UberPOP in Spain.

Okay, do you have any citation for the claim that UberPOP in Spain is unsafe or uninsured?

This link seems to say that neither of those fears is true for Brussels: http://blog.uber.com/uberpopfactsbxl ... I can't find a similar post for Spain, but then, I'm not the one who bears the burden of proof.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#72

Post by ekianjo »

pgsandstrom wrote: post #68
ekianjo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hands up who on HN thinks filling our roads with uninsured drivers is a good thing? Hands up who thinks mandatory checks on vehicles brakes and other basic safety systems is a bad thing? I think I see pg's hand at the back there. But in general the vast vast majority of people think mandatory insurance is a good idea. That's why nearly all developed countries require it by law. The thing is that instead of making t…

The thing is that insurances and checks on vehicle brakes are not visible for the consumer, and so an uninformed consumer won't care about it until an accident happen. By then, it's too late.

I was obviously not just referring about insurances/checks, but the whole regulation package.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#73

Post by svdree »

anon1385 wrote: post #48
piokoch wrote: post #17

As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a…

When people talk about 'heavy regulation', they don't usually specify what regulations they are actually talking about. In Germany for example, Uber is in trouble because they are not ensuring that their drivers are insured (a normal private car insurance won't cover commercial operation) and not ensuring that the vehicles have the required level of mechanical safety checks (commercial vehicles require more regular t…

> commercial vehicles require more regular tests because they do far more miles

That doesn't make any sense. Sure, high mileage cars probably need to be checked more regularly, but that goes for non-commercial vehicles as well. The fact that money changes hands after a ride does not do anything to the technical state of the car.

Same thing for the insurance: if I drive a friend to the airport, that's OK apparently. But if I drive someone else to the airport for money, suddenly I'm not insured anymore?

To me this just sounds like people making up rules to protect their own interests.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#74

Post by vimes656 »

samuel wrote: post #13
txutxu wrote: post #11

Well, a taxi license in Spain costs as much as a good new house. Maybe even two houses depending on the area. Historically, people needed to take big credits to start a taxi career. I'm not sure what is my position, but I've empathy for those who did pay such license and special insurances. Also I've empathy for those who want to make use of Uber services. It's not easy to make justice to all of them at the same time…

Also, licenses had their own bubble. Probably their value has decreased about a 50% since the peak.

Exactly, the price for a driver spot is driven by demand, it's not expensive just by law.

Traditionally, getting a driver license in Spain has always been like signing for a relatively well paid and secure job for life. And moreover, there is no need for any investment learning any particularly difficult skill. This is all supported by ridiculously high fares backed by regulations.

This is not to put the blame on taxi drivers, I truly believe they are choosing a honest option to make a living. But considering that an important factor, if not the most important, for the Spanish economical crisis is the inability to adapt to a global economy, with this kind of actions, the message the government is sending is: "don't invest your time learning to code, or getting engineering degrees because we are still trying everything in our hand to keep traditional professions secure and well paid, not like those new risky technological jobs". The average Spanish programmer is in a more precarious situation than anyone with a highly regulated unskilled profession.

Here in Spain, I'm constantly seeing measures to try to maintain the old ways of living at any cost with total disregard about how the rest of the world is evolving. I'm not claiming globalization is good or bad but it's happening, and if the Spanish government keeps trying to hide it from its population with more debt, in the long term, it only means less economical competitiveness for the country and slimmer chances to catch up with the rest of the world in the future.

Defending these minority groups only means more poverty overall for everyone in Spain.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#75

Post by lgieron »

slowmotiony wrote: post #70
piokoch wrote: post #17

As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a…

I don't know what taxi services are you using, but I live in a major Polish city and the taxis are horrible, for a couple of reasons: - You always get a different price - You never get a receipt (if you request one, you often get yelled at) - Drivers drive like madmen - Sometimes it takes 30+ minutes for a taxi, other times no taxi picks up the damn phone - Sometimes they tell you 20 minutes, and then don't come at a…

Are you a non-native? The culture of overcharging foreigners is probably still pretty strong in many places (it was born during the communist time, where every westerner was perceived as a walking wallet).

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#76

Post by icebraining »

raldi wrote: post #71
icebraining wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's for UberX in the US, the discussion is about UberPOP in Spain.

Okay, do you have any citation for the claim that UberPOP in Spain is unsafe or uninsured? This link seems to say that neither of those fears is true for Brussels: http://blog.uber.com/uberpopfactsbxl ... I can't find a similar post for Spain, but then, I'm not the one who bears the burden of proof.

I'm not either, pron is. I just pointed out that the link didn't apply.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#77

Post by MordodeMaru »

Adirael wrote: post #6
jjoergensen wrote: post #4

It would be nice to be able to find a "sane" taxi-driver in Spain. Many (most) of them drive like crazy and they are all listening to very loud football on the radio.

I don't use taxis very often but I've never found a stereotypical taxi driver in the 10-20 times I've used them (I live in Madrid). They were all polite, their cars were clean and had no music/radio or it was set to a low volume.

NOT REPRESENTATIVE.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#78

Post by drKarl »

It is indeed true that taxi licenses in Spain are so outrageously expensive that taxi drivers have to take a mortage big enough to buy a house, to pay for it.

There are certain industries in Spain which have legal barriers of entrance, so that it is very difficult for newcomers to get in, such as pharmacies and taxis. Think of it like a mafia.

That said, it has been proved on a TV programme, that a spanish-looking person taking a taxi, the taxi took a short route, and a foreign looking person taking a taxi from the same place to exactly the same destination, the taxi took a much longer and expensive route.

That said, it is my opinion that taxi driver and truck driver as a career has its days counted, in the light of innovations such as self driving cars. Obviously there will be a fierce (and presumably violent) opposition to the introduction of such disruptive technologies, they will lobby as a group (or as a mafia) trying to avoid that overtaking the market, but in the end those technologies will win.

So in the end, it is irrelevant if Uber can or can´t operate now in countries like Spain, because taxi drivers have no future.

The only hope for smart taxi drivers will be to buy a self-driving car and operate it 24hours a day (that is, embrace innovation as opposed to resist it, resistance is futile), while working themselves on something else, or just enjoying life.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#79

Post by pron »

davidw wrote: post #60
pron wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But here's precisely the role of politics. If more workers would mean no one can make a sustenance, then maybe it's society's role to tell the newcomers, "look for something else". Or maybe it's the opposite, and when all interests are considered, it's best to let the incumbents shave a few percents off their income. But this kind of decision is exactly what politics is for. I wouldn't want to let a Silicon Valley br…

How does "government" know exactly when to tell people to look for something else? Do you think it's possible that the "insiders" might try and influence the state to get them to tell that to newcomers in order to gain a bigger share of the pie for themselves?

> How does "government" know exactly when to tell people to look for something else?

I'm not sure why you put government in quotations, but the government doesn't know; it's supposed to decide through bargaining.

> Do you think it's possible that the "insiders" might try and influence the state to get them to tell that to newcomers in order to gain a bigger share of the pie for themselves?

Sure, but that's the name of the game. I would hope that politicians who want to get reelected support sensible policy (or at least a sensible "grand bargain"). The way the game is played sucks, but it's a lot better than living at the mercy of those who have more means (not that it isn't like that anyway, but at least democracies give people the power to organize and form an opposing power to capital).

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#80

Post by someone234 »

piokoch wrote: post #17

As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a…

In Germany and Spain, there's a state-maintained taxi cartel. They don't want any competition - that's the point of a cartel to begin with - and so, their friends in the government are working to prevent it. All the bullshit regulation is just part of maintaining the cartel.

Apparently they don't have this problem in Poland, and rather unsurprisingly, taxis are cheap and competing by having nicer cars etc.

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