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Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

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Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#61

Post by samuel »

pron wrote: post #23
txutxu wrote: post #11

Well, a taxi license in Spain costs as much as a good new house. Maybe even two houses depending on the area. Historically, people needed to take big credits to start a taxi career. I'm not sure what is my position, but I've empathy for those who did pay such license and special insurances. Also I've empathy for those who want to make use of Uber services. It's not easy to make justice to all of them at the same time…

> Also I've empathy for those who want to make use of Uber services. It's not easy to make justice to all of them at the same time. Well, it depends on your culture and perspective, of course. To me, the answer is almost always clear and obvious: when there's a conflict between the worker's happiness and the consumer's happiness, the worker comes first. Society's role is to ensure its members can make a respectable l…

The thing is that they aren't workers. It would be a much easier problem to solve if they were. They are freelancers with unlimited liability.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#62

Post by AlisdairO »

ekianjo wrote: post #58
anon1385 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people talk about 'heavy regulation', they don't usually specify what regulations they are actually talking about. In Germany for example, Uber is in trouble because they are not ensuring that their drivers are insured (a normal private car insurance won't cover commercial operation) and not ensuring that the vehicles have the required level of mechanical safety checks (commercial vehicles require more regular t…

> Hands up who on HN thinks filling our roads with uninsured drivers is a good thing? Hands up who thinks mandatory checks on vehicles brakes and other basic safety systems is a bad thing? I think I see pg's hand at the back there. But in general the vast vast majority of people think mandatory insurance is a good idea. That's why nearly all developed countries require it by law. The thing is that instead of making t…

I'm in favour of light-touch regulation on taxis (at least in the presence of an outfit that can provide driver reviews), but basic safety/insurance checks aren't something the market is likely to be all that efficient at enforcing.

The issues people are going to review on will be driver experience, internal cleanliness, etc. Poor vehicle safety only really becomes a passenger issue at the point it's too late.

Lack of insurance is even worse - because it also affects the person your taxi crashes into, who doesn't have any say in the matter at all, market-wise.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#63

Post by james1071 »

bottled_poe wrote: post #22
piokoch wrote: post #17

As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a…

Exactly. Uber has risen as we perceive the cost of a taxi service to be excessive. Why is this? Is it exploitation by a bloated monopoly or is it to cover actual costs (such as insurance, regulatory constraints) which don't present themselves to the average traveler? I'm sure it is somewhere in the middle.

The main differences will be labour rates-i.e. how much the driver is paid (or earns) per shift and the utilization rate (i.e how much of the time the driver is working).

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#64

Post by alkonaut »

ekianjo wrote: post #58
anon1385 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people talk about 'heavy regulation', they don't usually specify what regulations they are actually talking about. In Germany for example, Uber is in trouble because they are not ensuring that their drivers are insured (a normal private car insurance won't cover commercial operation) and not ensuring that the vehicles have the required level of mechanical safety checks (commercial vehicles require more regular t…

> Hands up who on HN thinks filling our roads with uninsured drivers is a good thing? Hands up who thinks mandatory checks on vehicles brakes and other basic safety systems is a bad thing? I think I see pg's hand at the back there. But in general the vast vast majority of people think mandatory insurance is a good idea. That's why nearly all developed countries require it by law. The thing is that instead of making t…

Consumers can see and value polite drivers and clean cars. I can't determine whether a taxi needs its breaks checked. So obviously I want some form regulation to be in place that guarantees that whatever taxi I get into actually has good breaks. Same thing with whatever paperwork needs to be managed for tax purposes and so on. I as a customer can't see it so it won't emerge by market forces alone.

There can always be over- and under-regulation in any market, the places where Uber was born from the "over regulation" probably has quite a lot more regulation, most notably it is probably where you have a system of regulating the NUMBER Of taxis (e.g. "Taxi medallions"). The "regulation" that many oppose to is probably the regulation that actually prevents people from easily getting into the taxi business to meet demand. Regulations regarding safety/insurance etc. I can't imagine either drivers or customers see as a problem. If someone finds getting proper insurance too bureaucratic that is probably a good filter for drivers you don't want on the market.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#65

Post by icebraining »

raldi wrote: post #59
pron wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think Uber is an "innovation"? It's simply an unregulated, unsafe and uninsured taxi service. It's just like those illegal scalpers offering rides in any airport, except with a smartphone app. That's not innovation (useful and popular taxi apps existed before Uber), and whatever it is, it's not being stifled. Uber is free to apply for permits just like everyone else. I think that instead of being sad you s…

> unsafe and uninsured What are your citations for those bold claims? The first one is subjective, and the second one seems objectively false: http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance

That's for UberX in the US, the discussion is about UberPOP in Spain.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#66

Post by RBerenguel »

mithras wrote: post #46
RBerenguel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in Barcelona, at least, since fare prices are shown in the windows (IIRC this is also the norm in the UK, and I thought this was also done Spain-wide, but it's been a while since I took a taxi outside of Barcelona.) Of course, nothing prevents the taxi from driving around needlessly. But this can happen anywhere, Uber or no Uber.

When I took a taxi in barcelona the taxi driver held my luggage hostage and insisted on a flat fee instead of the meter when we arrived at the destination. I had no working mobile phone so there was not much I could do but pay him. An anecdote but I doubt it's the only time that happened.

I doubt it too, but in highly regulated places (like Spain is, sadly for many affairs, luckily for some others) you could just pick the taxi number (they are always shown outside, license plate would work too) and complain against the city/company. Losing their mean of living is a pretty scary thing.

As a matter of fact, I've taken 2 taxis in the UK and was scammed in one of the trips (first one actually), the second one was nice. Shit happens, everywhere.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#67

Post by alkonaut »

james1071 wrote: post #50
sveme wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Many commentators especially in Germany are complaining about the lack of a will to innovate, yet uber is nothing new under the sun. They pretend to be part of a sharing economy, yet charge more than the fuel costs of a trip, which is the quintessential difference to ride sharing. They are simply a global taxi company with a fancy app that is trying to benefit from not being regulated by claiming to be somethin…

Yes, of course they are a taxi company and they are playing a game of words in pretending not to be. The reason that they do so is that the licensing rules for taxis protect the incumbents from new entrants.

Licensing/quotas/medallions etc. are horrible ideas. Uber is doing right for breaking into these markets, pretending to be taxis but saying they aren't.

So for all the other markets, where there is no medallion system or other barrier for entry to the market (other than "expected" things like insurance etc.), that is where Uber is just a taxi. And here they don't even SAY they aren't taxis.

My guess: taxi license/medallions are a relic that is bound to disappear pretty quickly. Since in some places people have to BUY these things, it's obviously not going to be done overnight.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#68

Post by pgsandstrom »

ekianjo wrote: post #58
anon1385 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people talk about 'heavy regulation', they don't usually specify what regulations they are actually talking about. In Germany for example, Uber is in trouble because they are not ensuring that their drivers are insured (a normal private car insurance won't cover commercial operation) and not ensuring that the vehicles have the required level of mechanical safety checks (commercial vehicles require more regular t…

> Hands up who on HN thinks filling our roads with uninsured drivers is a good thing? Hands up who thinks mandatory checks on vehicles brakes and other basic safety systems is a bad thing? I think I see pg's hand at the back there. But in general the vast vast majority of people think mandatory insurance is a good idea. That's why nearly all developed countries require it by law. The thing is that instead of making t…

The thing is that insurances and checks on vehicle brakes are not visible for the consumer, and so an uninformed consumer won't care about it until an accident happen. By then, it's too late.

Re: Spain is trying to get rid of Uber: drivers will face fines up to €18K

#70

Post by slowmotiony »

piokoch wrote: post #17

As far as I can see, Uber is the problem in countries, where taxi industry is heavily regularized. Recently Uber started its operation in Poland, in Warsaw. For 2 days that was a news, but later nobody paid much attention on it. In Poland in order to become taxi driver one needs to fulfill a number of conditions (only people who never comitted a crime are allowed a licence, must be physically and mentally healthy) a…

I don't know what taxi services are you using, but I live in a major Polish city and the taxis are horrible, for a couple of reasons:

- You always get a different price

- You never get a receipt (if you request one, you often get yelled at)

- Drivers drive like madmen

- Sometimes it takes 30+ minutes for a taxi, other times no taxi picks up the damn phone

- Sometimes they tell you 20 minutes, and then don't come at all.

Fuckers will talk all the ride about how hard it is for them to make a living, how the laws are hard to follow for them etc. And then give you a price of 50zl for a 10 minute ride. Ridiculous. I can't wait for services Uber and alike to take them all out of business.

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