Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#521

Post by thejdude » Fri, Oct 03, 2014, 7:17 AM UTC

mcv wrote: post #485

thejdude wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German here who also studied abroad for a year (US state college). Overall, there are many similarities, but also differences. I was surprised how freaking EASY everything was in the US university, compared to Germany. Multiple-choice tests, not much background knowledge assumed. Very school-like system (instead of assuming students will learn some of the necessary background at home). I've seen different German univ…

Buildings spread out through the city seems to be a product of having older universities. The oldest Dutch universities have that too, whereas newer universities tend to have most buildings concentrated on a campus. I know of only one that has on-site dorms (TU Twente), but most do have affordable student housing in the vicinity (though never enough for all students). There's usually a cheap, student-oriented sport c…

Hm, I've heard many complain about the food quality at our mensa, and many never ate there, but overall my experience wasn't bad. No fancy restaurant quality, but better than typical prepared/frozen meals and not at all bad.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#522

Post by thejdude » Fri, Oct 03, 2014, 7:19 AM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #461

thejdude wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German here who also studied abroad for a year (US state college). Overall, there are many similarities, but also differences. I was surprised how freaking EASY everything was in the US university, compared to Germany. Multiple-choice tests, not much background knowledge assumed. Very school-like system (instead of assuming students will learn some of the necessary background at home). I've seen different German univ…

>I was surprised how freaking EASY everything was in the US university What did you study? Either you're exceptional, you've never been to an engineering school in the US, or you were taking particularly easy classes.

Well, it was a state college, I'm actually really good, and we couldn't pick graduate classes in the US, even though I was a senior already, and if you compare standards that basically means graduate. But most likely it just wasn't an engineering school.

I've also had other classes, though (languages, marketing ...), and those were really easy as well.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#523

Post by mcv » Fri, Oct 03, 2014, 11:39 AM UTC

thejdude wrote: post #521

mcv wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buildings spread out through the city seems to be a product of having older universities. The oldest Dutch universities have that too, whereas newer universities tend to have most buildings concentrated on a campus. I know of only one that has on-site dorms (TU Twente), but most do have affordable student housing in the vicinity (though never enough for all students). There's usually a cheap, student-oriented sport c…

Hm, I've heard many complain about the food quality at our mensa, and many never ate there, but overall my experience wasn't bad. No fancy restaurant quality, but better than typical prepared/frozen meals and not at all bad.

I used to joke that they had a big can of "mensa spices" that they put in everything, making it all taste the same, no matter what it was originally.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#524

Post by adsfasdf23f23f » Fri, Oct 03, 2014, 1:28 PM UTC

rbehrends wrote: post #362

zwieback wrote: post #302

Another point: US universities look very different from German ones. I live in Corvallis (OSU) now but grew up and went to school in Stuttgart Germany. Compared to the German universities our US schools are country clubs: dorms, restaurants, coffee shops, fitness clubs, green spaces everywhere. Don't even get me started on the sports, it's an outrage how US schools have become sports franchises. I'm guessing most US…

To go into more detail, here's the typical lecture format at a German university (note that this is "typical", not universal, and professors have a lot of leeway in how they can structure their courses). There'll be a lecture twice a week (four "semester hours", 2 times 2 * 45 minutes) and a two semester hour exercise session. The lecture will be held by a professor [1]; the exercise session for undergraduate courses…

This sounds like my experience studying ME at Michigan State

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#525

Post by amuseamuse » Fri, Oct 03, 2014, 2:11 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #458

2ion wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's not much general ed to speak of If by 'general ed' you are referring to optional classes that are not necessarily related to your core subject or electives, I would like to say that you have very much the option (and in most reformed Bachelor-type programs it's a requirement) to take such classes and choose among many types of seminars ranging from communication and negotiation coaching to optional language…

>Also note that in contrary to (or so I think) most for-profit US universities Most US Universities aren't for-profit. In 2000 (the latest stat I could find) about 6% of college students were enrolled in for-profit universities). For-profit schools also generally have rather dubious reputations.

if you believe that non-profit universities in the US in any way behave as actual non-profit institutions, I have a course on bridge-building to sell you

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#526

Post by jo_ » Fri, Oct 03, 2014, 4:29 PM UTC

usrusr wrote: post #431

jo_ wrote: post #274

I've been digging through this thread and can't seem to find any information on the impact of 'free tuition' on tuition costs. In the US, we saw an increase in loan availability result in a significant uptick in the price of attendance to universities. If the government is paying the cost of tuition, how is the cost of tuition kept in check? Disclaimer: I love the idea of free public education. I wish it would take h…

> My only concern is how Universities will react to being paid almost arbitrary amounts of money per-student. This is absolutely not how it works over here. The state is not saying "go learn wherever you want, if they send you a bill, we will take care of it", it is funding the universities who have to accept students who bring the educational prerequisites. Funding is certainly coupled to number of students in some…

Thank you for the reply. I understand much better now. An intuitive understanding of the price/demand/negotiation dynamics still eludes me, but this has helped a lot.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#527

Post by jo_ » Fri, Oct 03, 2014, 4:29 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #284

jo_ wrote: post #274

I've been digging through this thread and can't seem to find any information on the impact of 'free tuition' on tuition costs. In the US, we saw an increase in loan availability result in a significant uptick in the price of attendance to universities. If the government is paying the cost of tuition, how is the cost of tuition kept in check? Disclaimer: I love the idea of free public education. I wish it would take h…

> If the government is paying the cost of tuition, how is the cost of tuition kept in check? By the government negotiating costs? I'd say a single payer has more bargaining power than individual students. Same as with public healthcare.

I'd completely forgotten about the single-payer negotiation aspect. That makes sense.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#528

Post by Florin_Andrei » Fri, Oct 03, 2014, 5:14 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #491

sergiosgc wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a myth. A common myth yet still unintuitively false. I once reviewed statistical data for high school level success metrics across countries. It is statistically observable how small a correlation there is between class size and education quality A good teacher can engage 50 students as easily as 500. Some of the best classes in my life have been in 200 people packed amphitheaters.

It's not about the class size, it's about the environment. Amphitheaters suck bad. A normal classroom is much better, and an online class is way better than an amphitheater.

> an online class is way better than an amphitheater

Maybe if you're sociophobic.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#529

Post by kragen » Sat, Oct 04, 2014, 1:57 PM UTC

davedx wrote: post #459

kragen wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a rural American, "moving to Norway" sounds like crazy talk. Like, is that in Africa or something? Do they have cannibals there? Do the Norwayish people have their own language? I'm struggling to figure out how to convey to you the level of lack of consciousness of Europe that is present there. (You think I'm exaggerating, but I've had a couple of friends from the US — the urban US! — tell me they want to visit m…

> they want to visit me here in Buenos Aires because they've always wanted to visit the Amazon. They didn't realize they're closer to it than I am Well, not quite. You're in Argentina which borders Brazil. While Brazil is a huge country you are definitely still closer to the Amazon area than somebody in the US. (I've travelled in Brazil and the Amazon and am fully aware how big it is and how long it takes to get from…

I stand corrected. The only way I could possibly have been right would have been if they were in Miami, which they weren't, and we were talking about the northwestern part of Amazonas, which was unspecified.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#530

Post by thejdude » Sat, Oct 04, 2014, 7:50 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #487

thejdude wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME very many German people are on FB (but yes, many also aren't, because they don't care and have their circle of offline friends). Twitter, almost nobody. Among younger (20-30) Germans, I think almost everybody is on FB (and even more are on What's App).

Being on FB (usually with a false name) does not mean that they would have created it as it is

I never said they would.

But for a while Germany had StudiVZ and MeinVZ. After a while FB became more popular, people with some international friends joined at first, and after a while everyone else did and the other networks basically starved. It was sad to watch, especially since many (local) groups there and parts of the UI were IMHO much nicer than what's on FB today.