Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, just like probably the biggest reason the US put a man on the Moon is because of the Cold War. Still pretty cool.
True! I do think it's a net win-win.
You miss the point in the post you are replying...
India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars
91–100 of 100 posts
Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a dumb question. What's a large democratic power, and how does it differ from China? I'm not implying China is in any way democratic, but rather inviting someone to further explain what the goal of the US is. Is it likely that this is simply empire expansion rather than an altruistic goal of balancing China? Mainly I'm just wondering what the concerns might be if a large democratic power (and I'd still like to…
Substitute "large democratic power to balance China" with "large power to balance China", and I think it makes more sense. U.S. foreign policy seems to be to hinder the expansion of other large powers in an attempt to keep them small enough to not be an existential threat at some point in the far future. You send money and aid to whom ever is in a position to hinder those who are growing too powerful, whether the gro…
They need to borrow money to do that...
Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars
#93Exciting news but is it an unqualified positive for both? Sometimes Constraints are what drives breakthrough innovations. India's ability to Manage Significant space exploration programmes on a Shoe string budget is driven in part by the need to innovate on a "ShoeString" budget. What we as a race desperately need is low cost access to Space - which perhaps may not become such a priority if NASA is allowed to influen…
NASA had a "go cheap" program to try crazy stuff on a shoestring that just might work. There were good results like Pathfinder ($150M) which tried the crazy idea of landing using an airbag. The problem is that the Powers That Be were not understanding about the failures inherent in trying crazy ideas out. So we went back to expensive spacecraft which were less likely to fail.
NASA has opportunities like the Small Explorers (SMEX, http://explorers.larc.nasa.gov/APSMEX/), Discovery (http://discovery.nasa.gov/p_mission.cfml), and New Frontiers (http://discoverynewfrontiers.nasa.gov/program/index.cfml) into which you can propose to conduct missions of different size/cost classes.
If you have low-cost mission concepts for achieving important scientific objectives, please propose them.
Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aren't NASA-level standards historically slow and inefficient? I was of the impression that private parties streamlining that process and coming up with a cheaper program is what led to NASA (or congress by proxy, whatever) abandoning manned spaceflight to the private sector. In other words, maybe India is taking a leaf from SpaceX's book rather than NASA's
NASA has an incredible record of success in cutting-edge technical missions far beyond any private industry that I know of. They are derided as slow and inefficient but when you consider how long those Mars rovers are lasting, well bring on more of whatever NASA is on.
> They are derided as slow and inefficient but when you consider how long those Mars rovers are lasting, well bring on more of whatever NASA is on.
Depends on the cost. If someone can make a Mars Rover that costs 1% as much but lasts 10% as long, that's progress.
Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
NASA has an incredible record of success in cutting-edge technical missions far beyond any private industry that I know of. They are derided as slow and inefficient but when you consider how long those Mars rovers are lasting, well bring on more of whatever NASA is on.
> They are derided as slow and inefficient but when you consider how long those Mars rovers are lasting, well bring on more of whatever NASA is on. Depends on the cost. If someone can make a Mars Rover that costs 1% as much but lasts 10% as long, that's progress.
> Depends on the cost. If someone can make a Mars Rover that costs 1% as much but lasts 10% as long, that's progress.
If the rover itself costs 1% as much, probably not. If the cost of the rover plus getting it to Mars is 1% as much, sure.
Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They are derided as slow and inefficient but when you consider how long those Mars rovers are lasting, well bring on more of whatever NASA is on. Depends on the cost. If someone can make a Mars Rover that costs 1% as much but lasts 10% as long, that's progress.
> Depends on the cost. If someone can make a Mars Rover that costs 1% as much but lasts 10% as long, that's progress. If the rover itself costs 1% as much, probably not. If the cost of the rover plus getting it to Mars is 1% as much, sure.
Yes, that's what I meant by `Mars Rover'. A Rover on earth is just an `Earth Rover'.
Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's a large democratic power India is indisputably a democratic country, not withstanding its developing status or struggles with corruption; they just ran what is probably the largest general election in history a few months back, followed by a smooth transfer of power. It's also large, because it has a population of 1.25 billion people, close to China's 1.36 billion people. And it's a power because it has nuclea…
The amount of nasty personal attacks I've attracted for the mistake of asking a question on HN has ensured I won't be making it again for a long time. Personal attacks are not allowed on HN, but that hasn't stopped you from calling me a person who is being obtuse and disingenuous. Did you ever stop to consider that I am ignorant of these matters, as I have said at least three times now? I don't know if you're having…
> I hadn't heard of India's general elections and smooth transfer of power, so that helps clarify things for me.
This book: read it.
Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had written something similar but you put it much more succinctly. The only things I'd add to this explanation 1) Democracy is the US rallying cry, our allies are more defensible when we do so in the name of democracy. 2) The powers that be are highly adept at manipulating a voting population so making an ally a democracy will likely turn it into a predictable/manipulable Plutocracy of sorts. *fixed implication tha…
Something to note regarding recent US and Indian history - During the cold war, India supported Russia (Not much of real support, mostly supporting in words and buying technology from Russia in turn). So US ended up supporting Pakistan and China. Pakistan continuously tried different ways to discourage India's development. Not sure if all that had any major effect on the cold war, but it certainly had serious repercu…
My read is that India was pushed to USSR's arms by USA's policy during cold war of, you either support us or you are our enemy. To hell with Non-Alignment. Who remembers NAM here.
Then USa goes, aaaahh, see your neighbour Pakistan supports us, so we are going sell them a sh1tload of arms and turn a blind eye to their N-weapon tie-ups with China and NKorea.
India had no other option than buy arms from USSR to balance out the Pak arms build up.
And hence the relation between India-USSR/Russia continues to this day. USA is getting a slice of the arms pie but the high cost of American arms hasn't helped to break the past ties.
Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's a large democratic power India is indisputably a democratic country, not withstanding its developing status or struggles with corruption; they just ran what is probably the largest general election in history a few months back, followed by a smooth transfer of power. It's also large, because it has a population of 1.25 billion people, close to China's 1.36 billion people. And it's a power because it has nuclea…
The amount of nasty personal attacks I've attracted for the mistake of asking a question on HN has ensured I won't be making it again for a long time. Personal attacks are not allowed on HN, but that hasn't stopped you from calling me a person who is being obtuse and disingenuous. Did you ever stop to consider that I am ignorant of these matters, as I have said at least three times now? I don't know if you're having…
> I hadn't heard of India's general elections and smooth transfer of power, so that helps clarify things for me.
I wouldn't blame you.
Here in Australia there was minimum coverage. Its almost like the developed countries didn't want their public to know that some developing countries are doing well.
But I have seen Australia's main TV station ABC run NZ votes, Indonesia Votes, Thailand votes special. Didn't happen for India.
Funny trying to hide the actions of 1+ billion people :)
Re: India, U.S. Agree to Joint Exploration of Mars
#100As usual, action speaks louder than words. This co-operation would probably not take place if India's mission did not take place or very few would listen their Indian counter parts if such agreement were signed without the mission.