Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#261

Post by acmecorps » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 5:52 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #246

jiggy2011 wrote: post #19

Has there been any extensive research done on relationship between university fees and social mobility? On one hand it seems obvious that if you reduce costs of attending university you remove a barrier that would prevent economically disadvantaged people from attending. But on the other hand, university students, especially those at the best universities disproportionately come from better economic backgrounds and t…

American here, after age 10, I grew up fairly poor and very rural. Within a half hour drive (on highways) from the home I grew up in, all the jobs were either in farming/agriculture, similar industrial (quarries or steel factory), grocery stores or gas stations. The notion of going to college was virtually inconceivable to me and I was pretty sure I'd end up out in a field or a factory someplace. For a while I did od…

Wow, congrats on your hard earned life! :)

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#262

Post by dang » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 5:52 PM UTC

From http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/features/feature-germa... it's clear that tuition fees had only been around for a few years in Germany, were relatively low, and most states had already dropped them.

Edit: I think we'll change the url to this article, because it's more substantive and not behind a paywall like http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article42135... is.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#263

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 5:53 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #195

warfangle wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

University should not be trade or professional school.

Right; to be clear, Instead of University students could be directed to a trade or profession that would suit them better (than wasting everyone's time in a four-year institution)

[deleted]

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#264

Post by sanderjd » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 5:53 PM UTC

MarkMc wrote: post #258

thro1237 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only provide anecdotal evidence. I come from a poor family and studied in India in a government university by paying $20/year. The cost of providing that education was estimated at $1000/year and private universities used to charge as much. If the government had not provided that subsidy, I would not have taken a loan to the tune of $1000/year because that would have been too risky. I would have opted for the l…

> I would not have taken a loan to the tune of $1000/year because that would have been too risky. I would have opted for the less risky option of herding cows. What if the loan repayments were a percentage of your salary, rather than a fixed rate? I wonder why these types of loans aren't offered...

Do you mean the monthly payments or the total payment? They offer salary-adjusted monthly payments (in the U.S. at least), but obviously you pay (a lot) more in interest that way and usually end up indentured to the loan for nearly your entire working life.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#265

Post by sean-duffy » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 5:54 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #195

warfangle wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

University should not be trade or professional school.

Right; to be clear, Instead of University students could be directed to a trade or profession that would suit them better (than wasting everyone's time in a four-year institution)

I think you've completely missed the point of what university is for. University is to study something you're passionate about at a high level, it isn't neccesstily a gateway to a job. There are plenty of people who study something such as art or history but then never go into careers in any way related to those. Dictating people's university choices is a terrible idea.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#266

Post by raverbashing » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 5:56 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #100

raverbashing wrote: post #73

I find the "American model" and the "European model" dichotomy very interesting. American model: individually centered, "pay for what you want", development is driven by small companies and individual decisions (most of the time). "Works for me" European model: centered on the community, social support, development by committee/government/consensus. Slow but directed improvements Germany could not have produced Faceb…

Germany could have produced facebook. edit: maybe better framed as a question - why do you think that Germany could not have produced facebook?

Simple answer: because they think it's silly (or think it's too much of a privacy violation)

Germans are "very serious" even when they're having fun.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#267

Post by watwut » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 5:57 PM UTC

0xFFC wrote: post #234

lispm wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of paths to Universities. What the German education system recognizes is this: not everyone needs to go to university. There are lots of other satisfying career paths.

personally I don't think universities is only for career ! people get more socialize ! get more experience ! and get more mature.

You can socialize and mature on the job too. I dislike this idea of University being some theme park for young adults where they can pretend they need some more maturing before they will become real adults.

Nobody is giving slack to kids who did not managed to get to college. They are expected to be mature. I'm pretty sure college students are as capable as them.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#268

Post by tyoma » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 5:58 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #251

tyoma wrote: post #225

I see lots of envy from US and UK based people, but not any thought given to the great opportunity: Germany accepts international students. Why not go to a German university and get a quality education paid for by the German taxpayer? As a bonus, you'll get to learn German for free.

Is it even covered for international students? In Canada international students pay much higher rates for tuition. About $10k for a program that might cost Canadians $3k. It's a huge racket. I'd be surprised if Germans decided to do the same, as well as taxpayers being will to pay for foreigners education.

Last time I was in Germany I talked to a Thai gentleman who was an international student there. He said all of his tuition was covered, and that it was standard policy. Some Googling seems to confirm thats the case, but someone from Germany should really clarify.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#269

Post by 0xFFC » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 5:58 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #226

Not sure free education provides absolutely net positive results. More data might be required. If you look at a country like Argentina, where university level education has been free probably since the country was founded you see issues. Running 10x more people through universities does not create 10x more prosperity. Lots of Medical Doctors in Argentina almost starve. Engineers drive taxis or own pizza joints. The o…

just having free universities is different than good free universities ! I can't imagine a good graduate starve ! they will create job ! but teaching just math and history and memorizing them and saying these people are well educated is just big lie !

education should be free (and with financial fund for all students) but should be very very competitive (not for money , money should be available for all, good grade should be very competitive ) ! In this case many people will drop universities ! because they cannot afford such efforts ! and educated one will be really educated !

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#270

Post by iammyIP » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 5:59 PM UTC

danielweber wrote: post #149

iammyIP wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[...] way past the point of marginal returns in terms of social or cultural advancement [...]" - how do you measure that? We have just started. More free education is always better, and as a bonus it forces society to automate mindnumbingly boring jobs when there is nobody left willing to do them. Imagine all People on Earth would have a university degree, good all-around education and culture would explode with the…

it forces society to automate mindnumbingly boring jobs when there is nobody left willing to do them I missed the headline that the biggest problem with the economy right now is "too many jobs that are too boring to do."

I thought these headlines were about ongoing automation, a still huge uneducated workforce that becomes more obsolete over time, about how humanity is not only about economy but also about culture and arts, and what we can do so that everybody can freely contribute to humanity without acting as a braindead worker drone all life long.