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Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

timeshighereducation.co.uk

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Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#71

Post by brianwawok »

mkaziz wrote: post #38
cafard wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After one of Mark Edmundson's op ed pleas for students and parents to consider college as non-vocational, I had a look at the University of Virginia's tuition and fees from the late 1970s to recently. Comparing this against the minimum wage, I found that a student could have earned the 1978-1979 tuition and fees working a bit over eight weeks at the minimum wage. For the 2011-2012 school year, it was more than 38 wee…

Is this before or after tax? 38 weeks seems short to me.

Well, 38 weeks * 40 hours * 7.25 per hour = $11,020. Your total tax bill at a yearly income of $11,020 is very close to $0 (and with educational credits I suspect you would get back slightly more than you pay).

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#73

Post by raverbashing »

I find the "American model" and the "European model" dichotomy very interesting.

American model: individually centered, "pay for what you want", development is driven by small companies and individual decisions (most of the time). "Works for me"

European model: centered on the community, social support, development by committee/government/consensus. Slow but directed improvements

Germany could not have produced Facebook. But they have a great train network. France puts satellites on orbit and does the TGV.

In the US you have millionaires came out of "nothing" (of course, from nice universities, nice contacts, etc), people jumping at opportunities, while in Europe this would take 2 meetings, 3 viability studies and 4 months.

So, while I'm more towards in favour of the European model someone has to ask themselves what are they missing. Yes, they have a very nice and educated workforce that will be ready to work and be very productive at a big company where they will work hard, sure, but will come out with the least amount of new ideas (that's not their job), and will do the things most likely to be accepted by the majority.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#74

Post by vapourismo »

taejo wrote: post #37

I'm a student at a German university, and I don't pay tuition fees, but I do pay about 400€ a year in "semester fees", of which the two largest components are "student services" and a compulsory season ticket for regional transport; student union membership and some kind of insurance contribution are also included.

400€ per year or per semester? Where? I am at the Institute of Technology in Berlin and I payed 290.37€ this semester, which includes 179.40€ for public transport.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#75

Post by Kesty »

GolfyMcG wrote: post #57

Why has no one brought up how the top German university is "ranked" 55th on this list: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-ranki... I'm not saying this list is definitive or that the US tuition prices are reasonable, but it stands to reason that the best of the best of anything is going to be exponentially more expensive than it's next closest competitors.

Not really.

14 place ETHZ (Switzerland) https://www.ethz.ch/en/studies/financial/tuition-fees.html $600 at semester = $1,200 (1 school year)

15 place John Hopkins(USA) http://www.collegecalc.org/colleges/maryland/johns-hopkins-u... $45,470 (1 school year)

Obviously it's US against Switzerland, it's completely different and very hard to compare. But bigger fees doesn't really means better university.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#76

Post by valarauca1 »

Igglyboo wrote: post #7
subhro wrote: post #4

I wish this happened in US. The fee part, not the paid to read part :)

I go to Oakland University in Michigan and we are the only University in the state(country?) to charge no fees. Tuition is still high but that is usually set by the state.

What is Oakland's Rough cost per semester? I live in the area and attend their security conferences from the outside looking in it seems like a decent school.

I already work as an software developer but a degree doesn't hurt my career options.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#77

Post by thro1237 »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #19

Has there been any extensive research done on relationship between university fees and social mobility? On one hand it seems obvious that if you reduce costs of attending university you remove a barrier that would prevent economically disadvantaged people from attending. But on the other hand, university students, especially those at the best universities disproportionately come from better economic backgrounds and t…

I can only provide anecdotal evidence. I come from a poor family and studied in India in a government university by paying $20/year. The cost of providing that education was estimated at $1000/year and private universities used to charge as much. If the government had not provided that subsidy, I would not have taken a loan to the tune of $1000/year because that would have been too risky. I would have opted for the less risky option of herding cows.

Fast forward 15 years, I worked in a research lab and in 2009 I paid more than $12000 in income tax alone. I also created more employment by spending the money I earned. The government got a great return on its investment and it can now fund the education of more people -- a virtuous cycle.

Almost half my class was in a similar situation and most of them are doing good.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#78

Post by tegeek »

jbangert wrote: post #64
GolfyMcG wrote: post #57

Why has no one brought up how the top German university is "ranked" 55th on this list: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-ranki... I'm not saying this list is definitive or that the US tuition prices are reasonable, but it stands to reason that the best of the best of anything is going to be exponentially more expensive than it's next closest competitors.

Without going into the metrics that these rankings use and their flaws, the German university system unfortunately focuses less on "elite" universitities, instead trying to create a good average experience, so most of the universities are actually fairly on-par with each other in terms of funding, and therefore also research output, teaching, etc. That being said, my experience with high-prestige american universitie…

I think you are right. Sweden is more or less has the same model as German when it comes to higher education. There are no particular "elite" universities & most of the universities are more or less on the same level when it comes to funding, research output, teaching etc.

Even as an International student back in 2008, I paid 0$ in tuition fees & used to pay 30$ as student union fee per study term/semester and have best study experience I can imagine.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#79

Post by VLM »

Shivetya wrote: post #67
jiggy2011 wrote: post #19

Has there been any extensive research done on relationship between university fees and social mobility? On one hand it seems obvious that if you reduce costs of attending university you remove a barrier that would prevent economically disadvantaged people from attending. But on the other hand, university students, especially those at the best universities disproportionately come from better economic backgrounds and t…

I am more concerned with good seats going to students who will never complete their degree, or the degree is not needed in the market and you end up with hobby and not a job. While the idea of removing costs sounds good there are just so many negatives. Means testing should still be done, raise the bar so that the truly well off are the only ones paying and not the lower income levels. The second "means" testing woul…

"or the degree is not needed in the market and you end up with hobby and not a job."

There are more destructive forms of welfare than academic credentialism. Its an interesting idea to think about... if you can't get a job, go to school for free collecting degrees and certifications until you get a job.

I've checked the numbers and in terms of accounting overhead and criminal justice system overhead it is somewhat cheaper, even with hyperinflated .edu costs, to send a kid to school than to jail. Even if only 1 in 3 kids gets caught and enters the criminal justice system (we do approach that ratio with some minorities) the numbers still work out that its cheaper to send all 3 of them to a community college than sending just 1 to prison.

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