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Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

timeshighereducation.co.uk

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Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#21

Post by waterlesscloud »

zura wrote: post #11
subhro wrote: post #4

I wish this happened in US. The fee part, not the paid to read part :)

Is price significant for public/state universities as well in US?

It used to be pretty reasonable. When I attended Ga Tech (a state school) a couple decades ago, it was a few thousand a year to cover tuition, books, food, dorms. I can't remember tuition exactly, but I think it was in the neighborhood of $1500-1800 a year. (By comparison, MIT and Harvard were in the neighborhood of $16,000 a year at the time).

Then there was a period where Georgia had a lottery-funded scholarship that would cover your tuition fully at state schools if you kept a good GPA. I've heard in recent years that it's slipped due to declining lottery revenues, but I'm not sure.

Looking now, I see it's $9,000 a year just for tuition. An estimated $25,000 per year overall. Big increase, though it has been a long time.

That's a lot of money for in-state attendance. When I went it wasn't really a burden on most people to cover their kid's cost at Ga state schools. Now I think it really would be.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#22

Post by zura »

pjmlp wrote: post #17
shmerl wrote: post #9

Impressive. I wish US would do the same.

From an European point of view, the US university system is crazy. In many European countries the value of state universities over private ones is very high regarded, that except for a few well renowned exceptions, private universities are seen as places where you buy a title, not earn one. As they mostly get the students that weren't able to go through the national exams for the state universities.

Yup, I always thought about top US universities as rich kids clubs.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#23

Post by edent »

cmdkeen wrote: post #18

There's a big difference between no tuition fees and "free" education. All this means is that the cost of education is passed on to all tax payers. Now this can be justified, there is utility in having an educated workforce and society. However when everyone is paying there is a need to have a decision about how many people need that education to provide the benefits everyone gets. The UK is seeing these problems wit…

They don't harm your credit rating, but...

* You have to declare them when trying to get a mortgage (or any other loan) and so may reduce the amount you are leant.

* If you go bankrupt - the loan does not go away.

* Want to launch a funky startup? Now the graduates you want to work for you start demanding more money because a higher percentage now goes back to the Student Loan Company.

I fought hard against the introduction of fees when they were introduced in the UK. In 1998 they were set at £1k a year - we said it was a slippery slope and were dismissed as paranoid. Fees in the UK are now up to £9k per year.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#24

Post by Retric »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #19

Has there been any extensive research done on relationship between university fees and social mobility? On one hand it seems obvious that if you reduce costs of attending university you remove a barrier that would prevent economically disadvantaged people from attending. But on the other hand, university students, especially those at the best universities disproportionately come from better economic backgrounds and t…

The economy is not zero sum and educated people on average make more. So, the net cost over time for subsidizing education is probably a small fraction of the sticker price. Or possibly it ends up paying for it's self.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#25

Post by [deleted] »

rikacomet wrote: post #6

another version: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/15/german-universi... I basically think this is a very big news. It effects a lot of people. Though I think this only applies (and should) to domestic students. In our country (India) .. the Right to Education Act was a hot topic this year.. it still has to go a long way.. but it can learn from Germany's example of doing away with the fees altogether in Publi…

[deleted]

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#26

Post by cafard »

tobinfricke wrote: post #10
Igglyboo wrote: post #5

It's really crazy how the students reacted to this when the fees were introduced. They were very low compared to the US, less than 1000 euros for an entire year yet the students responded with mass protests and vandalism. On university also had it's master key(ring?) stolen and had to spend a lot of money to redo every lock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_University#Protests_a...

The fees were really laughably small by U.S. standards, but fees, once implemented, seem to turn into a "slippery slope." So, as much as I like to mock my German students for complaining about having to pay €200 per semester, I think they were right to protest and "nip it in the bud". For instance, the University of California is formally tuition-free for in-state residents (edit: is this correct?), but over the last…

After one of Mark Edmundson's op ed pleas for students and parents to consider college as non-vocational, I had a look at the University of Virginia's tuition and fees from the late 1970s to recently. Comparing this against the minimum wage, I found that a student could have earned the 1978-1979 tuition and fees working a bit over eight weeks at the minimum wage. For the 2011-2012 school year, it was more than 38 weeks.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#27

Post by tptacek »

Heliosmaster wrote: post #2

* University education? free * Article to read about it? Pay for it. This beautifully sums up the differences of education and news.

I have no idea what this comparison is supposed to mean. Where does journalism come from? The Department of Journalism?

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#28

Post by pmr_ »

rikacomet wrote: post #6

another version: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/15/german-universi... I basically think this is a very big news. It effects a lot of people. Though I think this only applies (and should) to domestic students. In our country (India) .. the Right to Education Act was a hot topic this year.. it still has to go a long way.. but it can learn from Germany's example of doing away with the fees altogether in Publi…

No dice has been cast. Things simply revert back to how they always have been. One important thing to know is that German universities are not handled by the federal government but on a state level (as all things educational) but there is a broader framework to keeps things aligned.

Only some states decided to demand tuition for their universities in 2006 (some later) and most quickly stopped again after a few years.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#29

Post by rubbingalcohol »

tobinfricke wrote: post #10
Igglyboo wrote: post #5

It's really crazy how the students reacted to this when the fees were introduced. They were very low compared to the US, less than 1000 euros for an entire year yet the students responded with mass protests and vandalism. On university also had it's master key(ring?) stolen and had to spend a lot of money to redo every lock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_University#Protests_a...

The fees were really laughably small by U.S. standards, but fees, once implemented, seem to turn into a "slippery slope." So, as much as I like to mock my German students for complaining about having to pay €200 per semester, I think they were right to protest and "nip it in the bud". For instance, the University of California is formally tuition-free for in-state residents (edit: is this correct?), but over the last…

You're correct. I went to a UC and they didn't have tuition, but there was an "education fee" of several thousand dollars.

Re: Germany’s great tuition fees U-turn

#30

Post by jiggy2011 »

Retric wrote: post #24
jiggy2011 wrote: post #19

Has there been any extensive research done on relationship between university fees and social mobility? On one hand it seems obvious that if you reduce costs of attending university you remove a barrier that would prevent economically disadvantaged people from attending. But on the other hand, university students, especially those at the best universities disproportionately come from better economic backgrounds and t…

The economy is not zero sum and educated people on average make more. So, the net cost over time for subsidizing education is probably a small fraction of the sticker price. Or possibly it ends up paying for it's self.

But if they do make more, does it not make sense for the university grad to pay that cost after they have graduated?
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