Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates • Hacker News Board

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#101

Post by ObviousScience » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 9:04 AM UTC

hueving wrote: post #96

ObviousScience wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a robbery or home invasion, which was not the particular case I picked out. Note that I didn't complain about calling them to stop a murder, either. The specific case I pointed out was mugging, which is when someone stops you on the street and steals from you, typically meant to include an implied threat of violence, eg, "Give me your purse or I'll fucking shoot you" I found it interesting that out of three ca…

>My comment was meant specifically to point out that even when trying to list reasonable times to call the police, the person only seemed to get 2/3 being times the police would actually help the situation in any sense. Did the thought ever cross your mind that the police may be able to get security footage from a nearby storefront to identify the assailant or that they might be able to give you a ride home after you…

> Did the thought ever cross your mind that the police may be able to get security footage from a nearby storefront to identify the assailant

I'm aware that police do this when investigating crimes. However, this is also a source of misidentifying people, which often ends poorly. Young, black, and in a yellow shirt? Must be the first black guy we see in a yellow shirt!

I find it unlikely that your call is going to lead to a correct prosecution over a mugging, and further think that you need to counterbalance your want to feel better and more secure by calling big tough guys with guns with the very real prospect you're going to get someone else harassed, hurt, or killed.

> did you just assume police are mobile morons who serve no purpose other than to shoot and beat people?

I don't assume they're morons, nor that they think that's what their purpose is. However, they had to get investigated and forced in to a settlement by the federal DoJ for racially motivated policing and a record of unnecessary violence, including stomping a restrained man in a cell while screaming they'd beat "the Mexican piss out of him", regularly hassling the wrong black person who didn't even match the description given but just happened to be within a few blocks, and shooting a Native American woodcarver multiple times in the back while he was peacefully crossing the street because he was "armed" with a carving knife.

I didn't assume that they were psychotic thugs on a powertrip, no, they demonstrate that the police agency is completely unwilling to deal with these psychopaths in their ranks and instead will shield them from consequence. (They fought federal reform of their criminal policing tooth and nail - and still do to this day.)

When I go a month without hearing about how the local police brutally assaulted or murdered an innocent person, I'll stop acting like the local police force routinely assaults or murders citizens.

And until then, people calling the police need to realize that some police are psychopaths who will brutally assault or murder citizens in response to their call.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#102

Post by gambiting » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 9:23 AM UTC

ObviousScience wrote: post #53

morgante wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do not call the police. What? So if I'm getting mugged, murdered, or robbed I should just accept it? Or maybe I should build a personal arsenal so as to protect myself from all possible threats from criminals? This all sounds ridiculously Hobbesian to me. I'm no fan of the police, but the alternative isn't a state of nature.

What are the police going to do about your being mugged? I find it interesting that out of three examples, you happened to list one where the police can't possibly intercede without already being there, and your calling only serves to start a pretend hunt for lost property (hint: finding your stolen laptop is not their top priority), but will serve as justification if they want to rough up some local tough later. Aga…

This is one of two things that I find upsetting about US the most. The fact that you don't call the police when you need it, and also(and more importantly) that a lot of people wouldn't call an ambulance unless they were literally dying. It's stupid, and I cannot even fathom not having friendly police or worrying about the bill for an ambulance.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#103

Post by EliRivers » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 9:48 AM UTC

discardorama wrote: post #44

pan69 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Why can't the state let a bank put a bloody ATM (or several) in a common area, and let the inmates use debit cards? This is what you get in a privatised system. Money must be made and an ATM in the common area is not going to do that. http://www.alternet.org/story/155199/private_prison_corporat...

Is it any wonder then, that when the prisoners get out, they turn to crime? We are subjecting them to a selfish, dog-eat-dog world every day; we are harassing them, taking advantage of them (and their families) when they're the weakest; and then we expect them to come out and behave like model citizens??

It's worse than that. As an eye-catching example to lead in, the United States is the only country in the world in which more men are raped than women. The U.S. authorities know this is the case, and they know that they have created lawless societies in which they force people to live, without protection.

You take a man and you spend ten years teaching him that he is beyond the law. That the law does not apply to him. That he can rape someone and the law will look the other way, or that he can be raped and the authorities will offer him no protection, no respite. Theft, robbery, assault, murder. Crimes committed regularly, all around this man, and he sees every day that he can commit these crimes and the law will not apply, he can be a victim of these crimes and the law will not apply. The U.S. teaches a man for a decade that none of the rules apply to him; that he is above the law is demonstrated to him over and over and over again.

And then when he's released, having been taught this day in, day out, brutally, every damn day for a decade, it's a fucking surprise that he commits a crime?

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#104

Post by Fuxy » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 9:52 AM UTC

gergles wrote: post #73

They also operate the e-mail system that can be used to send e-mail to/from inmates (using a JPay tablet, of course). You have to purchase 'stamps' . For e-mails .[1] 1: http://www.jpayinc.com/email_videograms.html "One stamp corresponds to one 6000 character message (about the length of one handwritten page), or one attachment." "JPay’s correctional email service is faster than regular mail, with inmates usually rec…

I find it extremely hilarious since this is no different than the ridiculous data caps most american ISP's add to the contract.

Email doesn't cost more depending on the character count all email costs the same regardless of length same applies to America ISP's like Comcast.

It doesn't cost them more but they do certainly like to charge more what do they both have in common?

They are both for profit companies in an area where they are the only option due to intense lobbying and laws that price any potential competitor out of their market place.

There's a fine balance between regulation and for profit business and when the businesses are paying the regulator directly or indirectly it never ends well.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#105

Post by tankenmate » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 10:08 AM UTC

hueving wrote: post #95

gergles wrote: post #73

They also operate the e-mail system that can be used to send e-mail to/from inmates (using a JPay tablet, of course). You have to purchase 'stamps' . For e-mails .[1] 1: http://www.jpayinc.com/email_videograms.html "One stamp corresponds to one 6000 character message (about the length of one handwritten page), or one attachment." "JPay’s correctional email service is faster than regular mail, with inmates usually rec…

>This is fucking extortion. Not to be too pedantic, but that's not extortion. Nobody is required to buy them nor are they threatened by not buying them.

In the EU this would be considered extortion because you have a right to a family life; unconscionable profit at the expense of this right might be considered illegal, especially if it was the only service available (e.g. banking, family visit, letters etc)

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#106

Post by tankenmate » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 10:12 AM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #94

Spooky23 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decision makers are civil service types who are basically accountable to nobody. The Deputy Superintendent of Corrections Administration doesn't give a hoot. Corrections officers have strong unions with ironwood support from their legislators, so it is very difficult to get the executive branch in most states to care about anyth that pisses the unions off.

Why would prison guard unions be in favor of ripping of prisoners with ridiculous fees?

Perceived control.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#107

Post by zura » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 12:31 PM UTC

ObviousScience wrote: post #81

kenjackson wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the poster meant to literally call after he was murdered. But rather before it happens. There was a recent story about a lady who called the police when someone kicked in her door. She hid on the roof while the criminal looked for her. The police came and got the criminal and took her off the roof. Should she have not called the police when the guy kicked in her door?

That's a robbery or home invasion, which was not the particular case I picked out. Note that I didn't complain about calling them to stop a murder, either. The specific case I pointed out was mugging, which is when someone stops you on the street and steals from you, typically meant to include an implied threat of violence, eg, "Give me your purse or I'll fucking shoot you" I found it interesting that out of three ca…

Not sure how it is in USA, but in Georgia (Europe), muggers are usually caught after 30-60 mins when you call police. And belongings are returned to you. Not necessary some luxury items... even your cheap cellphone [from 00s] counts.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#108

Post by calibraxis » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 12:43 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #4

The only question that rings to me anymore about these stories: What can I do? What code can I write? What broker can I call? What form can I sign? How can I register my civic will so as to undo this blight? For me, this is the most embarrassing thing about being a United States citizen.

This is what activists do. The world isn't what you learn in civics class. There's no benevolent bureaucrat or 4-year king who'll give you the tools to fundamentally fix such problems. If you need that, then you're trained in helplessness, like cult members. (Who may pledge allegiance to cult symbols, spend half their day in a communal workplace under a leader's command and watchful eye, etc.)

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#109

Post by tmosleyIII » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 12:56 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #72

innguest wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There isn't "one company." Ok, so lest we shift the conversation - as right now we're talking about the specific prison and the specific banking corporation that this prison is using as described in the full article - please tell me who is the competitor to JPay. Don't give me "different departments of corrections" blah blah blah. I'm arguing the system as explained in the article is broken specifically because JPa…

Naming the competitors is irrelevant. What is relevant is that these states are not procuring contract services with a competitive process. In other payment related areas where honest procurement happens, there are a number of companies in the market -- for example welfare EBT card systems are managed nationwide by 5-7 different large payment processors. Sounds to me that JPay found a loophole in contract law that al…

It is a competitive process but like you said, once they get in it his hard to dislodge them. JPay has been dislodging other incumbents more rapidly in the past few years. There are a few other companies that are out there but their name isn't in the news like JPay.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#110

Post by tmosleyIII » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 1:02 PM UTC

corford wrote: post #36

jMyles wrote: post #4

The only question that rings to me anymore about these stories: What can I do? What code can I write? What broker can I call? What form can I sign? How can I register my civic will so as to undo this blight? For me, this is the most embarrassing thing about being a United States citizen.

Start a kickstarter campaign to create a not for profit, ethical competitor to JPay? Providing the prisons still get a similar commission (which according to the article isn't where the lion's share of the fees comes from), why wouldn't they opt to go with a payments firm that gives them good PR? Edit: alternatively, maybe the stripe guys could fund/seed a philanthropic off-shoot to tackle this?

JPay does have competitors and there are a few opportunities out there but the Request For Proposals that come out are for a lot more services than just payment.

The opportunities available for the future are ripe for a startup but no thinks of startups in Corrections.