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Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

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Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#91

Post by jackvalentine »

jMyles wrote: post #71
felixc wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would hope so, but I suspect that they don't care about public perception, and a surprisingly large slice of the public would actually be supportive of punitive treatment of prisoners' families.

> large slice of the public would actually be supportive of punitive treatment of prisoners' families. I refuse to believe this.

> "Specifically, the stigma' of incarceration and the accusation of shamelessness are not reserved for offenders; as recent empirical and ethnographic research confirms, the families of convicted and incarcerated persons experience a significant stigma as well."

AUSTIN, R. 2004. Shame of It All: Stigma and the Political Disenfranchisement of Formerly Convicted and Incarcerated Persons, The. Colum. Hum. Rts. L. Rev., 36, 173.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#92

Post by icebraining »

ObviousScience wrote: post #53
morgante wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do not call the police. What? So if I'm getting mugged, murdered, or robbed I should just accept it? Or maybe I should build a personal arsenal so as to protect myself from all possible threats from criminals? This all sounds ridiculously Hobbesian to me. I'm no fan of the police, but the alternative isn't a state of nature.

What are the police going to do about your being mugged? I find it interesting that out of three examples, you happened to list one where the police can't possibly intercede without already being there, and your calling only serves to start a pretend hunt for lost property (hint: finding your stolen laptop is not their top priority), but will serve as justification if they want to rough up some local tough later. Aga…

Again, what do you think the police are going to do if you've already been mugged?

I'm not in the US, but my brother got his cellphone back after it was stolen (not even mugged, so he didn't even see the thief). It probably helped that it was a device with built-in localization systems, though.

But in general, filing a police report is mandatory around here if you want to activate your insurance policy.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#93

Post by [deleted] »

jessaustin wrote: post #77
morgante wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do not call the police. What? So if I'm getting mugged, murdered, or robbed I should just accept it? Or maybe I should build a personal arsenal so as to protect myself from all possible threats from criminals? This all sounds ridiculously Hobbesian to me. I'm no fan of the police, but the alternative isn't a state of nature.

Calling the police is like using regular expressions: now you have two problems. You shouldn't expect them to stop crime in progress: if you actually ask a cop she'll tell you that's not their job. Instead, they show up at some random time after the crime is over and do cop things: detain, intimidate, shoot pets, destroy property, confiscate, etc. Why would you invite anyone to your home or neighborhood to do those t…

[deleted]

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#94

Post by bjourne »

Spooky23 wrote: post #69
corford wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That actually makes it easier. Build a non-profit competitor, get the press, charities & public behind it and shame the fuckers in to switching. With material like that it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

The decision makers are civil service types who are basically accountable to nobody. The Deputy Superintendent of Corrections Administration doesn't give a hoot. Corrections officers have strong unions with ironwood support from their legislators, so it is very difficult to get the executive branch in most states to care about anyth that pisses the unions off.

Why would prison guard unions be in favor of ripping of prisoners with ridiculous fees?

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#95

Post by hueving »

gergles wrote: post #73

They also operate the e-mail system that can be used to send e-mail to/from inmates (using a JPay tablet, of course). You have to purchase 'stamps' . For e-mails .[1] 1: http://www.jpayinc.com/email_videograms.html "One stamp corresponds to one 6000 character message (about the length of one handwritten page), or one attachment." "JPay’s correctional email service is faster than regular mail, with inmates usually rec…

>This is fucking extortion.

Not to be too pedantic, but that's not extortion. Nobody is required to buy them nor are they threatened by not buying them.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#96

Post by hueving »

ObviousScience wrote: post #81
kenjackson wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the poster meant to literally call after he was murdered. But rather before it happens. There was a recent story about a lady who called the police when someone kicked in her door. She hid on the roof while the criminal looked for her. The police came and got the criminal and took her off the roof. Should she have not called the police when the guy kicked in her door?

That's a robbery or home invasion, which was not the particular case I picked out. Note that I didn't complain about calling them to stop a murder, either. The specific case I pointed out was mugging, which is when someone stops you on the street and steals from you, typically meant to include an implied threat of violence, eg, "Give me your purse or I'll fucking shoot you" I found it interesting that out of three ca…

>My comment was meant specifically to point out that even when trying to list reasonable times to call the police, the person only seemed to get 2/3 being times the police would actually help the situation in any sense.

Did the thought ever cross your mind that the police may be able to get security footage from a nearby storefront to identify the assailant or that they might be able to give you a ride home after you lost all of your money, identification, and phone? Or did you just assume police are mobile morons who serve no purpose other than to shoot and beat people?

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#97

Post by bjourne »

innguest wrote: post #17
rayiner wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't "one company." Different departments of corrections have contracted to hire companies to handle deposits, just as your business might contract with a company to outsource some service. More generally, I'm not saying that the free market doesn't work. I do think market solutions are merely tools to be used in appropriate situations. And when the potential for abuse is high, as with prisons and other tradit…

> There isn't "one company." Ok, so lest we shift the conversation - as right now we're talking about the specific prison and the specific banking corporation that this prison is using as described in the full article - please tell me who is the competitor to JPay. Don't give me "different departments of corrections" blah blah blah. I'm arguing the system as explained in the article is broken specifically because JPa…

The article mentions Touchpay and NIC Inc...

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#98

Post by shams93 »

morgante wrote: post #50
bcoates wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good place to start is to refuse to cooperate with evil. The justice system depends on the active and passive cooperation of the general public. Do not call the police. If the police wish to speak with you, on any matter, politely decline. If a known police or corrections employee tries to do business with you or at a place you work, inform them that their kind are not welcome here. Don't underestimate the extent t…

> Do not call the police. What? So if I'm getting mugged, murdered, or robbed I should just accept it? Or maybe I should build a personal arsenal so as to protect myself from all possible threats from criminals? This all sounds ridiculously Hobbesian to me. I'm no fan of the police, but the alternative isn't a state of nature.

Yeah was car jacked had my elbow ripped out of the socket police showed up... and left laughing at me, not even a joke. But given the laws in california if I had defended myself I'd likely still be locked up, some one paying $18 to send me an email

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#99

Post by waterlesscloud »

rdtsc wrote: post #58
waterlesscloud wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Instead of contracting to one service like any other entity, government would always need to contract with several No, the government is the entity making a selection among several choices, and is the entity in the position to negotiate the rates. Therefore they could bargain for lower rates if they wanted. Misrepresenting the choices isn't making your case.

> and is the entity in the position to negotiate the rates. But Lower rates for whom? Inmates. Why would prison officials care if inmates get lower rates?

Sure, but that's not a failing of the free market, that's a failing of the government.

Re: Prison Bankers Who Profit from the Inmates

#100

Post by 3pt14159 »

S4M wrote: post #27
innguest wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being myopic on purpose. > The drumbeat since Reagan has been that private companies Companies! Plural! The free market cannot exist when there is One True Company that the government let operate and Oh! See! The One True Company is charging too much so clearly free markets don't work. Please.

The problem I see here is that the inmates and their families don't have a word to say in what company is managing the prison logistics. The ones who decide are the prisons themselves, so they don't care if the inmates and their families get even more milked, all they are incentivized to care is their commissions (so JPay and consorts are encouraged to milk even more the inmates to please the authorities). So it's an…

How is the prisons deciding the free market? Shouldn't the inmates choose thier banks, toothpaste, etc?
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