First the government puts itself above the law by engaging in unconstitutional surveillance. And then they complain that some companies retaliate by tightening up the encryption? Even though they have some valid point, it's very hypocritical. I doubt this would have happened if not for the Big Brother's behavior to begin with.
U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data
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Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data
#62They are going straight into "think of the children mode" " Smartphone communication is “going to be the preferred method of the pedophile and the criminal. We are going to lose a lot of investigative opportunities." Apparently "what about the terrorists?" isn't as effective anymore. Let's hope the public will see through their manipulative talking points.
Hmm sounds to me like they are trying to convince people to use their phones for illegal doings.
Also, all of the comments in this thread (not this one specifically) make me wish HN threads root comments defaulted to collapsed so people might avoid duplicate root comments. Maybe...
Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data
#63This is a bit like protesting door locks because they make it harder to pop in and look around.
I don't support what the government is trying to do here, but minimizing this issue like this is not doing us any favors. The issue isn't that law enforcement can no longer "look around" your phone. The issue is that they can no longer get a warrant and use what is on your phone as evidence in an investigation or court case without the phone owner's cooperation. Basically your phone goes from being personal property…
Yes, but everything on your phone came from someplace where a warrant will produce evidence.
Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data
#64My expectation is anyone participating in illegal activities would already be using encryption. Encryption is readily available and and isn't very tedious as long as someone walks you through it. It is not like terrorists use Google docs and write their plans in plain text. What am I missing? The best I can infer from desperation of government is that they want to control people by collecting as much info as possible.
Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data
#65Outside of having a plethora of security experts audit and certify these services I'd say this is about as close as you can get to a ringing endorsement. The only way it gets better is if other governments follow up with the same complaints. Ultimately I'm pleased that this kind of thing even makes the news. Ideally government becomes almost totally transparent and private matters become nearly opaque (there will alw…
> I'd say this about as close as you can get to a ringing endorsement Or they just want criminals to think that all they have to do is buy an Apple or Google phone, and they can't be caught.
Bingo! This is a stunt to make people who do bad think they're going to be safe. It is all just a clever act. For those who believe this and do bad and get caught, ha!
Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data
#66My reply is... "What about the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution?"
Would we really be having these discussions if Americans (speaking as an American here) were better-educated on our own rights, our own foundation, the very fibers of our own history?
I mean, this is such a simple amendment, so crystal-clear and eloquent. After reading it (see below), how can there possibly be any doubt as to how the proverbial wool is being pulled over our eyes?
Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
With end-to-end encryption where the messages are encrypted and decrypted on the client it would not be possible for anyone with access to phone records or central servers to read what was said. They would need to obtain the private keys that are generated on the client devices themselves.
But they'd still be able to do that given a warrant? Or is this unwarrantable protection, for lack of a better word?
Nope. They could use a warrant to compel the sender or the recipient of the messages to unlock them or face jail time. But Apple doesn't have the keys.
Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data
#68If the government had proven itself trustworthy enough to follow it's own processes for accessing information only after obtaining a warrant, I could agree with the argument. However, things escalate when one side can't trust the other. Encryption is needed.
This is my view. Law enforcement from the Feds on down have lost the trust of the American people.
They have lied to us, misrepresented what they are doing and now use the scoundrel's argument "what about the children?". The growing threat of a mass surveillance govt is real and in the long run a bigger threat to freedom than the so-called terrorist. I find the idea of a mass surveillance govt more terrifying than a few religious nuts with bombs or even hijacked planes.
Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data
#69Outside of having a plethora of security experts audit and certify these services I'd say this is about as close as you can get to a ringing endorsement. The only way it gets better is if other governments follow up with the same complaints. Ultimately I'm pleased that this kind of thing even makes the news. Ideally government becomes almost totally transparent and private matters become nearly opaque (there will alw…
Government has forced the issue before. I think BlackBerry, for example, had to allow Middle East governments access to their secure messages previously.
The difference now is that there can be dozens of different secure communication apps that the user can install. Potentially run on servers outside of the particular agency's jurisdiction.
This is a much more difficult situation for the agencies than when RIM/Blackberry ran all the messaging through their own service.
Re: U.S. Law Enforcement Seeks to Halt Apple-Google Encryption of Mobile Data
#70They are going straight into "think of the children mode" " Smartphone communication is “going to be the preferred method of the pedophile and the criminal. We are going to lose a lot of investigative opportunities." Apparently "what about the terrorists?" isn't as effective anymore. Let's hope the public will see through their manipulative talking points.
Yeah, I let out an audible WTF when I read that. I wish this argument would stop.
Oh, it gets better.
"The notion that someone would market a closet that could never be opened – even if it involves a case involving a child kidnapper and a court order – to me does not make any sense."