Adobe joins the Chromebook party, starting with Photoshop • Hacker News Board

Re: Adobe joins the Chromebook party, starting with Photoshop

#121

Post by ChuckMcM » Mon, Sep 29, 2014, 9:42 PM UTC

blowski wrote: post #96

ChuckMcM wrote: post #84

And this is the logical conclusion of the death of the 56K baud modem. There was a prophetic (if early) contest at Sun to 'imagine the future' and the winner got a SPARCStation. As a networking guy I tried to imagine what was going to change when the 'big yellow hose' (which is what 10MB Ethernet looked like at the time) came right into your living room. And one of the things that changed was that you could work at '…

Did you win?

No sadly. The winning entry involved video conferencing. (which also came to pass but not in quite the way that person envisioned it, I still think there is a chance we'll see it in games).

Re: Adobe joins the Chromebook party, starting with Photoshop

#122

Post by astrocat » Mon, Sep 29, 2014, 9:43 PM UTC

na85 wrote: post #104

astrocat wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The power/electricity analogy here is what's really key - there will come a time when the ubiquity of being "online" will be the same as the ubiquity of "the power is on." It's so prevalent in modern society we really don't think about it. It took me a while to realize that this is where Google is headed with ChromeOS/Chromebooks. Ultimately, "applications/apps" will not exist, there will just be the web and all pers…

Kids in the first world having access to mobile broadband at speeds and prices that make Photoshop-as-a-service feasible on their chromebooks is explicitly not awesome unless you're one of those privileged kids. This is a "rich get richer" situation that is developing. The problem with the centralized model is that it rather fucks over even people in developing or under-developed countries, and also places like, say,…

ok... so kids in the first world have mobile broadband and can sit on a bench in central park and photoshop away on their fancy chromebook pixel.

Meanwhile, kids in Egypt who don't have mobile broadband sit at a desk in an internet cafe and photoshop away on their cheap chromebook.

I don't see what the problem is?

Re: Adobe joins the Chromebook party, starting with Photoshop

#123

Post by vitd » Mon, Sep 29, 2014, 9:57 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #117

penguindev wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be preventing your local credentials from being phished / stolen, keyloggers installed, your machine from being in a botnet...

And your local credentials matter for exactly what? The only useful ones are increasingly the ones you type in the web browser. http://xkcd.com/1200/

While the cartoon is cute, it's wrong. I don't remain logged into services I'm not using. If I'm not doing banking right now, I'm not logged into my bank account. I don't have my browser remember my password, either, so I have to enter it every time I go to their website. I can also locally encrypt data on my drive if I feel it would benefit me. I realize many people are lazy about these things, but I like having the option to not be. (I also don't use many of those services because they are big security risks.)

Re: Adobe joins the Chromebook party, starting with Photoshop

#124

Post by jiggy2011 » Mon, Sep 29, 2014, 9:59 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #119

anon1385 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not awesome at all. It's the death of personal computing. What to use Photoshop? Pay a perpetual monthly fee forever, with no control over which version of the software you are using. Adobe jacked up the price this year for the new version despite a lack of new features? Tough, nothing you can do about it. It's either pay up or lose access. The new version is buggy? Tough luck. Want to modify any of the software…

Uh no. You see the reason personal computing exists is because it was people who wanted this level of control and "their own computer" started using these cheezy "calculator chips" to build their own computers. What they could do was a lot less than what the mainframes/minicomputers/workstations could do but you could own your own. All of those things are still true. But there is a rub. Today you can go on some warez…

Sure, but you then end up with two entirely divergent software ecosystems.

As it stands two people, one of whom uses Linux/LibreOffice/GIMP and another who uses Windows/MS Office/Photoshop are able (bar some possible formatting issues) to share data and collaborate together because they can share files via dropbox or USB dongles.

Once Photoshop and Office move entirely to the cloud there will no longer necessarily be "files" to share.

Re: Adobe joins the Chromebook party, starting with Photoshop

#125

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Sep 29, 2014, 10:01 PM UTC

vitd wrote: post #123

TeMPOraL wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And your local credentials matter for exactly what? The only useful ones are increasingly the ones you type in the web browser. http://xkcd.com/1200/

While the cartoon is cute, it's wrong. I don't remain logged into services I'm not using. If I'm not doing banking right now, I'm not logged into my bank account. I don't have my browser remember my password, either, so I have to enter it every time I go to their website. I can also locally encrypt data on my drive if I feel it would benefit me. I realize many people are lazy about these things, but I like having the…

I know that Randall is focussing on the stored credentials aspect, but the wider picture remains true - local credentials don't matter at all for an average user, because everything that matters is stored and operated remotely.

Re: Adobe joins the Chromebook party, starting with Photoshop

#126

Post by jiggy2011 » Mon, Sep 29, 2014, 10:12 PM UTC

astrocat wrote: post #122

na85 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids in the first world having access to mobile broadband at speeds and prices that make Photoshop-as-a-service feasible on their chromebooks is explicitly not awesome unless you're one of those privileged kids. This is a "rich get richer" situation that is developing. The problem with the centralized model is that it rather fucks over even people in developing or under-developed countries, and also places like, say,…

ok... so kids in the first world have mobile broadband and can sit on a bench in central park and photoshop away on their fancy chromebook pixel. Meanwhile, kids in Egypt who don't have mobile broadband sit at a desk in an internet cafe and photoshop away on their cheap chromebook. I don't see what the problem is?

The internet cafe would still be slow, and not being able to work from home is worse that their current situation.

Re: Adobe joins the Chromebook party, starting with Photoshop

#127

Post by marknow » Mon, Sep 29, 2014, 10:13 PM UTC

astrocat wrote: post #118

anon1385 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not awesome at all. It's the death of personal computing. What to use Photoshop? Pay a perpetual monthly fee forever, with no control over which version of the software you are using. Adobe jacked up the price this year for the new version despite a lack of new features? Tough, nothing you can do about it. It's either pay up or lose access. The new version is buggy? Tough luck. Want to modify any of the software…

I dunno... all of this sounds like fearmongering and some of these things are perfectly analogous to the way stuff already works. For example: "Want to continue using SuperAwesomeApp? Too bad..." Want to continue using TwitPic? Too bad. Obsolescence happens, companies shut down, products go off the market and cease to be supported every day. This isn't new. If there's enough demand for an alternative, it will happen.…

Not quite the same as a qym membership, however. Many, many designers use Adobe products to create original work. The prospect of being forced to continue to pay for access to your own created works feel a bit like a strong-arm tactic... and that's honestly how many large and small agencies are beginning to feel. It's not easy to just use another product, since a lot of proprietary aspects of the Adobe universe make it nigh impossible to open or access in another application.

Re: Adobe joins the Chromebook party, starting with Photoshop

#128

Post by nailer » Mon, Sep 29, 2014, 10:37 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #124

ChuckMcM wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh no. You see the reason personal computing exists is because it was people who wanted this level of control and "their own computer" started using these cheezy "calculator chips" to build their own computers. What they could do was a lot less than what the mainframes/minicomputers/workstations could do but you could own your own. All of those things are still true. But there is a rub. Today you can go on some warez…

Sure, but you then end up with two entirely divergent software ecosystems. As it stands two people, one of whom uses Linux/LibreOffice/GIMP and another who uses Windows/MS Office/Photoshop are able (bar some possible formatting issues) to share data and collaborate together because they can share files via dropbox or USB dongles. Once Photoshop and Office move entirely to the cloud there will no longer necessarily be…

Web intents would allow new competitors to open existing docs.

Re: Adobe joins the Chromebook party, starting with Photoshop

#129

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Sep 29, 2014, 10:38 PM UTC

astrocat wrote: post #118

anon1385 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not awesome at all. It's the death of personal computing. What to use Photoshop? Pay a perpetual monthly fee forever, with no control over which version of the software you are using. Adobe jacked up the price this year for the new version despite a lack of new features? Tough, nothing you can do about it. It's either pay up or lose access. The new version is buggy? Tough luck. Want to modify any of the software…

I dunno... all of this sounds like fearmongering and some of these things are perfectly analogous to the way stuff already works. For example: "Want to continue using SuperAwesomeApp? Too bad..." Want to continue using TwitPic? Too bad. Obsolescence happens, companies shut down, products go off the market and cease to be supported every day. This isn't new. If there's enough demand for an alternative, it will happen.…

> Photoshop used to be a product, now its a service. This isn't an "injustice" it's normal business.

Well, it isn't injustice. But it doesn't change the fact that this sucks, very badly.

The thing about personal computing was that when a company goes out of business, the software they made still remains on machines. It can be 3rd-party-patched. File formats can be reverse-engineered, so that you can use your data with a new program. Software can be cracked, so if a company tries to make you pay too much it is the company, not users, that is going to have a bad day.

All that move towards the cloud serves companies well, but sucks for the user. You don't get to tinker anymore. You don't get to do things your way anymore. Technologically, are being literally enslaved.

Re: Adobe joins the Chromebook party, starting with Photoshop

#130

Post by ChuckMcM » Mon, Sep 29, 2014, 10:39 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #124

ChuckMcM wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh no. You see the reason personal computing exists is because it was people who wanted this level of control and "their own computer" started using these cheezy "calculator chips" to build their own computers. What they could do was a lot less than what the mainframes/minicomputers/workstations could do but you could own your own. All of those things are still true. But there is a rub. Today you can go on some warez…

Sure, but you then end up with two entirely divergent software ecosystems. As it stands two people, one of whom uses Linux/LibreOffice/GIMP and another who uses Windows/MS Office/Photoshop are able (bar some possible formatting issues) to share data and collaborate together because they can share files via dropbox or USB dongles. Once Photoshop and Office move entirely to the cloud there will no longer necessarily be…

That is true, and to the extent that those cloud applications don't use an open interchange standard you won't be able to share documents with them. Having lived through this from before[1], it isn't as dire as you might imagine. What happened last time is that it forced a lot of interchange formats. Will be interesting to see if it does that again. All of the market forces are still there, person A wants to send a document to person B, etc. Of course everyone can send HTML or RTF documents like they do today.

[1] Intel used MultiMate for its documents (as did a bunch of lawyers) while nearly everybody in the tech space was using Interleaf. Xerox was trying to be the paperless glue for the middle. We got PostScript out of it, which was an interesting compromise.