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Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

theguardian.com

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Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#91

Post by MichaelGG »

philiphodgen wrote: post #50
viraptor wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "the only way to hold e.g. USD is to be incorporated on US soil"? I have some USD and thankfully have no relation to the US. Do you mean bank regulations? That seems to contradict for example Lloyds Bank in the UK having current accounts in USD.

All USD transactions clear through the Fed. If you are a bad bank they might not clear your USD transactions. That could be bad for business.

What prevents another system being put in place, if other banks agree to use it?

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#92

Post by clamprecht »

MCRed wrote: post #77
phunge wrote: post #65

I was personally bit by this (FBAR non-compliance). I worked abroad and was unknowingly violating it; found out about it from reading the news and hired a pro to extricate myself from the situation. The bank account held five figures. The cost to come into compliance was low five figures. The potential penalties were easily high six figures. It was much larger than the either (a) my total earnings from 4 years abroad…

You're right on all accounts except the intent of the policies. The polices were intended for people like you. They are popularly SOLD as being against "rich tax evaders", but government, always and everywhere, wants more and more control, and that's why the requirements apply to people with 5 figure bank accounts rather than 8. Unless sufficient checks are in place, governments will grow their power and control ever…

I agree with your comments except the money laundering part. For money laundering, doesn't the source of the proceeds have to be illegal?

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#93

Post by MCRed »

ArtDev wrote: post #32

Typical for the IRS to go after the small fry while letting the behemoths get a free ride! Meanwhile, Facebook and Apple are supposedly based in Ireland. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-money-apple-avoids-p...

Apple is not based in Ireland. Apples European business is based in Ireland.

The idea that the US government is owed taxes for transactions that happen in other countries is kind of absurd.

What if the British declared that you owe them income taxes (after all, america was a british colony, they could consider us subjects)?

You'd see that as absurd, yet Britian has more claim on US citizen income taxes than the US has on a chinese product being sold in europe.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#94

Post by sliverstorm »

matthewowen wrote: post #15

The underlying problem behind all of this is that the USA's policy on taxing non-resident citizens is, fundamentally, absurd. As a permanent resident, it's the one thing that gives me pause about applying for citizenship (I know that the same rules apply to me whilst I'm a permanent resident, but I'm concerned about what happens in the future if I decide to leave the USA).

Why is it absurd? Or, from the other angle, why does it exist? (real answers please, not "becuz money-grubbing gub'mint")

Considering you get to deduct $100k of your foreign earnings, it's not like they are trying to rake John Doe Expat over the coals.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#95

Post by opendais »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #42
opendais wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you meant "Fuck you, US Congress". The IRS is the enforcer, not the source.

Why can it not be both? Congress only passes the Tax Code, the IRS on the other hand has a liberal mandate into how they go about doing their job. They are quite tyrannical when it comes to fees and penalties. They also don't need a court order to garnish your wages or confiscate your property.

Because focusing on the IRS ignores the fact Congress can alter the IRS's mandate at-will to remove any of the policies of the IRS that is considered "bad". The President and his appointees can alter things within the mandate.

Get angry at the people that make policy, not the people that enforce it.

Sure, the IRS could be nicer. However, as someone who had to handle a policy enforcement role from time to time...I know the people I had to enforce policy on hate me, personally. However, I'm just enforcing policy. That enforcement is basically an email saying "No, disregard what X told you because Y is current policy."

People at the bottom usually aren't assholes "just because". We become assholes because people get angry with us over stuff we have no control over [unless we quit].

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#96

Post by sitharus »

sergiotapia wrote: post #13

I'm going through this IRS bullshit -personally-. I was under the impression filing taxes was simple, hell why would they make it complicated. But nope, if you live abroad it's twice as complicated for an ex-pat. Worse still, if you're self-employed (like I am) and a freelancer it's ever more paperwork and edge cases to be careful of. And the cherry on top! Software engineers have a whole different set of tax rules.…

As someone quite familiar with the situation, you're better off saying "Fuck you Intuit". They spend millions of dollars a year lobbying to keep the tax system complex.

You can start here: http://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-maker-of-turbotax-...

For what it's worth, as a dual citizen of UK and New Zealand I've only filed a tax return twice in my life - when I was a contractor.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#98

Post by syntern »

Note, that some of this (from FATCA) applies to visa workers who are not US citizen or greencard holders.

I work in the US on H1B, and I have been already declined to open an investment account in my home country in Europe, just because I was subject of US tax and have SSN. They told me that I'll be open the account once I move back to Europe and lose my US tax status.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#99

Post by goodcanadian »

psuter wrote: post #7

Note that if you are a green card holder, you are subject to the same rules, and face the same denial of service by the financial institutions.

Even worse, if you are a non-american living in the U.S., you are subject to the same rules. I'm foreign for immigration purposes, but the IRS is happy to claim me as a USian.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#100

Post by opendais »

MCRed wrote: post #82
opendais wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you meant "Fuck you, US Congress". The IRS is the enforcer, not the source.

True but the IRS is also off the straight and narrow as they have gone after political opponents of the president, disappeared evidence in the ensuing investigation, etc. etc.

Yes, that is the Republican spin.

Do you feel "open source software" is the political enemy of the president? That received the same level of scrutiny along with "progressive".

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-15/irs-sent-same-lette...

It was a keyword based list based on types of organization the IRS had the most issues with. The Democrats were hit in 2011. Years before this was an "issue". Oddly enough, the Republicans were fine with that but mysteriously they:

1) Ignore the non-partisan, non-political, and liberal groups that were targeted under the same policy. 2) Only complain about the targeting of potentially conservative groups.

And even if you claim "the IRS goes after political opponents of the president", you blame the President for not keeping them on a tight enough leash. You don't blame the people enforcing the Presidential policies.

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