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A Long, Ugly Year of Depression That’s Finally Fading

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Re: A Long, Ugly Year of Depression That’s Finally Fading

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been depressed for over ten years, I'm currently thirty years old. I left my job in January due to depression, though I didn't tell anyone. I haven't worked a day since then and am just living off savings as they dwindle. I haven't spoken to any of my former co-workers who were my only contacts in the Bay Area since I moved from the East Coast to work at a startup. I've spent all day every day numbing myself wit…

I feel obliged to respond to this post since I've feel that you've basically described my life. I quit my (soul-crushing) job three months ago and plan on living off my savings until I manage to gather the energy to find another one (or to kill myself). I'm 29 and never had a girlfriend either. I feel utterly invisible to the opposite gender, as if there was some kind of unexplainable communication gap that I never m…

I could have written something similar when I was in my late 20s.

My teenage years were filled with depression. My circle of friends consisted of a handful of people I knew from IRC. My 20s consisted of a string of failed business ventures. I was living at home. I had almost nothing in my bank account. I had very few friends and I would inevitably sabotage every friendship I had. I was overweight. I didn't have a girlfriend and had never even experienced a kiss. I lost a parent and then lost a step parent. I felt like the supposedly best years of my life were slipping through my fingers.

After being rejected by a girl I met online because of my weight/appearance, I decided that getting in shape would help. Eventually I was able to lose weight and I met a girl after attending a rare social event. I thought she was perfect and we hit it off but after our first date she rejected me in a very harsh way. I was devastated and decided to end my life.

I'll spare the details but I spent considerable time researching. I purchased the instrument of my demise. I wrote letters to the few people who I thought would care apologizing for my shortcomings.

Before I took what I believed would be the solution to my pain I took all of the money I had from a gig and went on a solo trip overseas. The first night I cried myself to sleep. I literally walked everywhere until the heels of my feet bled. I talked to some people I met and had a wonderful experience that reminded me good can enter your life in the most unexpected of ways and at unanticipated times. But most of my travels were in my mind.

My pain didn't end when I came back but I didn't end my life. Today I am in much better financial shape but I don't feel I have lived up to my potential and I'm still very much a procrastinator. I still don't have many friends. I have a girlfriend although anyone in a relationship can tell you they look easier than they are. There are days when I feel lost or like an impostor. I still have more regrets than I can count. I am currently mourning the loss a pet who I considered one of my best friends.

You're not silly or pathetic. I don't know what the purpose of life is either. Life is absurd and undeniably impermanent. I don't have any advice to give but if I could suggest one thing, it's that absurd, impermanent things aren't inherently worthless and incapable of providing happiness. "Nothing matters anyway" is as much an invitation to experiment with life and live it without worry or expectation as it is to give up on it.

Re: A Long, Ugly Year of Depression That’s Finally Fading

#103
Speaking purely to the experiences of building a new software product, I've seen this exact story play out countless times. Everyone (except maybe the engineers themselves) seems to think that designing a software product is part of the "planning phase", and thus should happen before any time is "wasted" on development:

> "That product planning led to an immense series of wireframes and comps (visual designs of what the product would look like and how it would function) that numbered into the hundreds of screens..."

The biggest contributor to this I've seen is the dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of small ways that a design (done in a vacuum, without simultaneous prototyping) will differ from established development patterns, frameworks, and other pre-packaged solutions that engineers use daily to avoid reinventing every wheel. And engineers respond with timelines that expect to be able to leverage those frameworks. Thus the dissonance begins.

One example: a design calls for a form to be broken across 4 pages. There may be great aesthetic rationale or even user testing to support this, but that means that in all likelyhood any framework (e.g. Rails/Flask/Play/etc, not to mention native apps) will have to have additional modification to support sessions, changes to validation, changes to the auth domain, persistence changes, etc. And it's not necessary for an MVP. And many times these differences are much more subtle and deeply entrenched, and would require rethinking much of the wireframes/designs to align with development patterns. /rant

I'm not sure what the answer is here, except maybe that this is one more point in favor of having a "technical founder" or in general a technical person with decision-making authority, to avoid going down a road without proofing out your ideas or timelines.

Re: A Long, Ugly Year of Depression That’s Finally Fading

#105
post #96

I respect Rand and give him a lot of credit for vocalizing his challenges. Depression is a challenge and it can be overcome. I am not a doctor, but I can tell you that a lot of my peers are suffering from depression from business, marriage or just in general. One thing I do know is that the world has changed a lot in the past decade. The price of everything just keeps going up and we are constantly bombarded by infor…

You mentioned staying off caffeine, but recommended teas that both (usually) contain caffeine. Not trying to be a jerk, but genuinely curious - is the caffeine from tea better for the body than the caffeine from coffee? Or did you mean decaffeinated types of tea?

Your not being a jerk, I should have been more concise. Decaf but Black Tea, in general is helpful. http://www.ucl.ac.uk/media/library/tea

Re: A Long, Ugly Year of Depression That’s Finally Fading

#106
post #59
post #43

As somebody who is not depressed, it is always confronting to see just how hard depressed people are on themselves.

Is confronting the word you meant to use? It does not make much sense in this context. But the alternative explanation is that an attempt at "comforting" was auto-corrected to confronting. But being "comforted" by another person's sadness makes it appear that you are a "less than virtuous and decent" person and that does not seem like something you would want to advertise.

Maybe l33tbro meant "disconcerting"?

Re: A Long, Ugly Year of Depression That’s Finally Fading

#107
post #76
post #6

Forgive my ignorance and bluntness, but reading the above, it sounds more like an anxiety disorder than like depression. Both are serious, but I'm not sure if it helps to confuse the two? I've not experienced either seriously, but I know people who have. Depression seems to be more about things not mattering anymore, everything being pointless, the world seeming drab and just not fun anymore, rather than feeling that…

I've read that anxiety and depression often present together, so much so that it's hard to tell which is the primary issue. I personally suffer from anxiety without depression, so it seems easy for me to tell the difference. An anxiety attack for me is something that comes on very suddenly, leaving me with an overwhelming sense of impending doom. Usually it's a feeling that I'm about to lose control or drop dead righ…

I've had both separately and at the same time. Anxiety causes me to have a panic attack, but its the depression that causes me to dwell and feel trapped by the anxiety. Otherwise with no depression I can easily shrug it off and continue as normal.

Re: A Long, Ugly Year of Depression That’s Finally Fading

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel obliged to respond to this post since I've feel that you've basically described my life. I quit my (soul-crushing) job three months ago and plan on living off my savings until I manage to gather the energy to find another one (or to kill myself). I'm 29 and never had a girlfriend either. I feel utterly invisible to the opposite gender, as if there was some kind of unexplainable communication gap that I never m…

I could have written something similar when I was in my late 20s. My teenage years were filled with depression. My circle of friends consisted of a handful of people I knew from IRC. My 20s consisted of a string of failed business ventures. I was living at home. I had almost nothing in my bank account. I had very few friends and I would inevitably sabotage every friendship I had. I was overweight. I didn't have a gir…

Human beings are wired to find intrinsic value in certain things. Art, music, puzzle solving, beauty, achievement, scientific knowledge, friendship, fine tasting food, travel experiences, charity work. Even life itself has some intrinsic value that we recognise. Ultimately none of these things has permanence and the pursuit of them all is absurd in some sense.

All of these are things that transcend our animal needs and desires. We value them not because of their ultimate usefulness or their needfulness, but because they have intrinsic value. Not ultimate value, but intrinsic value nonetheless.

Trying to fill your life with as many nice experiences as possible before you die only exaggerates the impermanence of our physical lives. And striving to "leave a legacy" for future generations can distract us from the intrinsic value of things that only we can experience and appreciate, and necessarily only in our lifetimes.

I'm absolutely desperate for the New Horizons spacecraft to finally arrive at Pluto next year. I'm going to look at every photo that thing sends back and be thrilled at having lived at precisely the right time to see it. And I'm going to keep looking and soaking it in until I am sick of that sucker. I'll read every article on it. Not because I think that it's going to have any meaning in the broader framework of my life (I'm not a planetary scientist), but because that will be an experience only people in my generation can have. To me, that rock will be beautiful, no matter how ugly and devoid of life it looks.

The same is true of a day's work. Any such day is probably meaningless. But at the end of it you can look at what you've done and derive satisfaction from it. Not permanent satisfaction, so that you don't have to do it all over again tomorrow. But real satisfaction that only you can experience.

Once I read a geology textbook, and learned about how the mountains are pushed up by continental shelves pushing together and worn down by erosion. Layers of sediment get uplifted. Earthquakes cause faults, and so on. After reading enough, I actually started to lose the sense of the beauty of mountains. All I saw was mechanical processes at work.

But this didn't last. Eventually, my innate sense of beauty captivated me again, so that when I look at mountains I am filled with wonder and a deep sense of awe. This despite the fact that I still know precisely how they got there, scientifically speaking.

I'm unsure whether the intrinsic value there is in the mountain itself or in my appreciation of it. But for that moment when I can actually visit a mountain, when I can actually have that experience, I appreciate that beauty.

But somehow, sitting around all day looking at photos of beautiful mountains, or even living right under one, isn't going to make me enjoy the rest of my life. The mountain is an experience I get to have irregularly. In this way, the intrinsic value of that experience catches me by surprise.

I even think that if I got on an aeroplane tomorrow to fly to a mountain to see it, I wouldn't be that affected by it. I'm sure we can do many things to increase our enjoyment of life, but I think that we have to be careful of believing that if we keep feeding experiences to ourselves we'll keep enjoying them. Treasured experiences can be very opportunistic. They depend on a happy coincidence of circumstances which I am uniquely able to appreciate at that time and place.

Re: A Long, Ugly Year of Depression That’s Finally Fading

#109
post #5

I'm also recovering from a depression which lasted for quite a while. It absolutely sucks because you think you're worthless, nobody loves you, you can't get anything right and the best would be if you just wouldn't exist anymore. And on top of that you isolate yourself. I know how hard it was to ask for help therefore I want to show you some things which helped me: - Realize that your depression is lying to you. It…

I've been depressed for over ten years, I'm currently thirty years old. I left my job in January due to depression, though I didn't tell anyone. I haven't worked a day since then and am just living off savings as they dwindle. I haven't spoken to any of my former co-workers who were my only contacts in the Bay Area since I moved from the East Coast to work at a startup. I've spent all day every day numbing myself wit…

Find a doctor and get diagnosed. I'm not going to tell you that it will help you get better...I can't promise that. But getting the diagnosis will allow you to sign up for Social Security disability and keep you from eating through your savings. Everyone is different and every depression is different and the only thing I'm virtually certain of about your situation is that the stress of eating into your savings isn't helping you. Having someone who forces you to talk about yourself beyond a superficial level on a regular basis probably won't hurt either.

That said, here's what I wish someone had told me ~10 years ago when I first sought help:

1) Psychiatrists are too quick to prescribe medication. It alleviated the initial symptoms and allowed me to go back to work, but it separated me from my emotions in a way that's been hard to recover from since I've stopped taking them. That sentence looks weird to read, but it's the only way I know to describe it.

2) Try CBT and mindfulness therapy first. Also, socialization exercises help. It may not seem like it, but simply adding a "how was your weekend?" to your interactions with the cashier at the supermarket or forcing yourself to smile at 1 person a day can make a difference, however small.

3) Depression isn't only disease. It's a state of mind that can be useful. Take this opportunity to think deeply about things. Your current state of mind probably allows you to "dwell" on an issue in a way that I sometimes wish I could regain.

4) Sunlight helps. If you're feeling near catatonic, you might try being near catatonic in the park, in a back yard or anywhere where you can sit outside.

Good luck with getting better and I hope you can believe that it's worth it to try.

Re: A Long, Ugly Year of Depression That’s Finally Fading

#110
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read that anxiety and depression often present together, so much so that it's hard to tell which is the primary issue. I personally suffer from anxiety without depression, so it seems easy for me to tell the difference. An anxiety attack for me is something that comes on very suddenly, leaving me with an overwhelming sense of impending doom. Usually it's a feeling that I'm about to lose control or drop dead righ…

I've had both separately and at the same time. Anxiety causes me to have a panic attack, but its the depression that causes me to dwell and feel trapped by the anxiety. Otherwise with no depression I can easily shrug it off and continue as normal.

That's interesting. I have had panic attacks so severely that it is impossible to shake them off. My jitters and anxiety about further attacks can go on for hours or even days. I think I have a normal amount of depression ensuing from this, but not what I'd call clinical depression.

If I could put it into words, I'd say I felt more scared than depressed. "What if this is how my life will be from now on? I don't see how I could possibly cope. This must be what torture feels like."

(Fortunately the reality is that I managed to stabilise my anxiety using some of the methods I mentioned, to the point that I have few if any discernible symptoms for periods of months at a time.)

I've actually read papers by psychologists who seem genuinely unaware that quite severe anxiety disorder can present without any significant depression.

However, when I was a teenager I had a form of OCD that psychologists at the time considered to be a holy grail, essentially untreatable. I taught myself some mental tricks, which I later learned are standard fare for psychologists (CBT basically, although I'd never heard that term), and it went away after two years. I really and honestly thought full recovery wasn't possible at the time on the basis of what psychologists thought.

With anxiety, I choose not to own the condition. I don't feel attached to it in any way. I view it as definitely temporary, even if it does still flare up occasionally. And I believe that full recovery is realistic based on my past experience.

Of course I am just lucky that I don't have clinical depression to go with my anxiety. But I have friends who have fully recovered from that.

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