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Apple – Privacy – Government Information Requests

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Re: Apple – Privacy – Government Information Requests

#101

Post by jwr »

mkal_tsr wrote: post #74
jwr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it amusing that people are being outraged at Apple, instead of being outraged at their government. From outside the US, it looks like it became generally accepted that the NSA will spy on US citizens all it wants, unchecked, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Instead, all the rage is getting directed at companies that disclose the information to NSA.

Is this directed at me? I'm not outraged at Apple at all, I think they're trying to play the long game here. I'm just sick of the word games, deception, and legalese from anyone regarding privacy. It's hard enough fully understanding exactly how all the pieces fit together (technology, laws, politics, etc.) for people that are genuinely interested in this, let alone the average consumer. Pointing out loopholes in wor…

Well, I think whatever Apple says, you will find a "loophole" in the wording that supposedly allows them to do evil things. Try it: pretend you are Apple and just try writing a statement that you would consider acceptable and that you wouldn't call "word games, deception and legalese".

Myself, I think they did fairly well, certainly the best of any tech company out there today.

Re: Apple – Privacy – Government Information Requests

#102

Post by downandout »

kristofferR wrote: post #99
downandout wrote: post #93

"On devices running iOS 8, your personal data such as photos, messages (including attachments), email, contacts, call history, iTunes content, notes, and reminders is placed under the protection of your passcode. Unlike our competitors, Apple cannot bypass your passcode and therefore cannot access this data" This is key. The way we engineer software and services can have a major impact on the war against overly invas…

The quote is extremely misleading. Sure, it's encrypted by your passcode, and that's great. It's important to note however that the passcode is just 4 digits long by default, and could be bruteforced by Apple in milliseconds if they wanted to. So to say that "Apple cannot bypass your passcode" is misleading, as guessing it is absurdly easy. http://www.slideshare.net/alexeytroshichev/icloud-keychain-3...

Not the point. The point is that they've done enough to legally respond to government requests by saying "we don't have a way to access the data". Hacking customers' phones, regardless of how easy it might be, is far beyond the scope of anything that a US court can order a private party to do.

Re: Apple – Privacy – Government Information Requests

#103

Post by sidcool »

Apple has taken a shot against Google and facebook. It has mentioned that unlike its competitors their business model does not depend on selling user data. Which is kind of true, but Google and facebook's business model itself is using user data for marketing.

Sometimes I feel it's not unethical to use user's data for marketing, the way facebook and Google tell us; that they don't directly share details with marketers, but they let them target the audience.

Re: Apple – Privacy – Government Information Requests

#104

Post by adventured »

I understand this does nothing to stop the NSA from snooping on me. However, the local / state police are a much more imminent threat to your average person with the rise of the police state than the NSA and FBI are. The local police are becoming ever more aggressive when it comes to your privacy and devices like your phone.

If this turns out to be as good of a move as it seems like it is, Apple has acquired my attention in a way they weren't able to previously (I've been an Android user from day one). Plus I like the new larger iPhone 6.

Re: Apple – Privacy – Government Information Requests

#105

Post by ghshephard »

kristofferR wrote: post #99
downandout wrote: post #93

"On devices running iOS 8, your personal data such as photos, messages (including attachments), email, contacts, call history, iTunes content, notes, and reminders is placed under the protection of your passcode. Unlike our competitors, Apple cannot bypass your passcode and therefore cannot access this data" This is key. The way we engineer software and services can have a major impact on the war against overly invas…

The quote is extremely misleading. Sure, it's encrypted by your passcode, and that's great. It's important to note however that the passcode is just 4 digits long by default, and could be bruteforced by Apple in milliseconds if they wanted to. So to say that "Apple cannot bypass your passcode" is misleading, as guessing it is absurdly easy. http://www.slideshare.net/alexeytroshichev/icloud-keychain-3...

Is this still the case in iOS 8? I know it was the case previously, but has anything changed in iOS 8 to prevent apple from just brute forcing the 9999 combinations with a mounted flash drive?

Re: Apple – Privacy – Government Information Requests

#106

Post by adventured »

xkiwi wrote: post #66

Finally those numbers of iPhone activation and mac sold are useful. #1 Mac unit sales http://www.macworld.com/article/2062821/apple-by-the-numbers... 2010 @ 13662k 2011 @ 16735k 2012 @ 18158k 2013 @ 16341k Total = 64,896,000 #2 iPhone unit sales http://www.statista.com/statistics/232790/forecast-of-apple-... I only take the number from 2013 & 2014 because Apple trend to upgrade fast. 2013 @ 53.6 Million, 2014 @ 63.2…

The problem is that local police are getting increasingly aggressive about abusing your privacy, and seeking access to your devices during the course of routine stops and searches.

Legally there is a combination of abuse and grey area right now, and it's going to get worse near term.

Those government information requests don't cover how many times an officer at the local or state level has accessed someone's phone either illegally or questionably legally.

This move by Apple can help to blunt that effort by the local police.

Re: Apple – Privacy – Government Information Requests

#107

Post by BillinghamJ »

kristofferR wrote: post #99
downandout wrote: post #93

"On devices running iOS 8, your personal data such as photos, messages (including attachments), email, contacts, call history, iTunes content, notes, and reminders is placed under the protection of your passcode. Unlike our competitors, Apple cannot bypass your passcode and therefore cannot access this data" This is key. The way we engineer software and services can have a major impact on the war against overly invas…

The quote is extremely misleading. Sure, it's encrypted by your passcode, and that's great. It's important to note however that the passcode is just 4 digits long by default, and could be bruteforced by Apple in milliseconds if they wanted to. So to say that "Apple cannot bypass your passcode" is misleading, as guessing it is absurdly easy. http://www.slideshare.net/alexeytroshichev/icloud-keychain-3...

You're not limited to 4 digits. In fact, when you set up Touch ID, the phone prompts you to enter a longer text-based passcode on the basis that you shouldn't have to enter it often.

Re: Apple – Privacy – Government Information Requests

#108

Post by BillinghamJ »

imaginenore wrote: post #100
downandout wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if they designed it properly. That's like saying that all makers of encryption software can, if they really want to, access all data encrypted with their software.

Of course they can. All you have to do is leak passwords/private keys. An OS is actually much more powerful, it controls everything, it has direct access to memory. If a user can see his photo, the OS can.

> Not if they designed it properly.

You can (and always should) design encryption code without having a single root key. Entirely open sourcing that code should not make any difference to the security of the encrypted data.

Re: Apple – Privacy – Government Information Requests

#109

Post by hooplarbazaar »

dasp wrote: post #77
xkiwi wrote: post #66

Finally those numbers of iPhone activation and mac sold are useful. #1 Mac unit sales http://www.macworld.com/article/2062821/apple-by-the-numbers... 2010 @ 13662k 2011 @ 16735k 2012 @ 18158k 2013 @ 16341k Total = 64,896,000 #2 iPhone unit sales http://www.statista.com/statistics/232790/forecast-of-apple-... I only take the number from 2013 & 2014 because Apple trend to upgrade fast. 2013 @ 53.6 Million, 2014 @ 63.2…

0.00385% of 181,696,000 is 6995, not 699529. Even if we take the total number of iTunes customers (~800 millions), it comes down to 30,800.

It's between 0-250. Tim Cook confirmed it on the Charlie Rose interview on Monday.

Re: Apple – Privacy – Government Information Requests

#110

Post by CamperBob2 »

adventured wrote: post #97
ddebernardy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get the government you vote for.

You get the government the majority of voters vote for.

You also get the one the majority didn't vote for, since it's more or less indistinguishable from the one they did vote for.
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