Informative graph: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diseased_Ebola_2014.png
Are those cumulative figures? A bit misleading if so.
The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
111–120 of 176 posts
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
And who pays for the, potentially unbounded fallout from that decision ? Let's say this happens : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide (First read about the advantages of the drug, then move to the crises. in particular the birth defects crisis) And please don't just say that people knowingly took the risk, read the article first to see how that played out. People won't accept the consequences of decisions made u…
Why? When you are going to die you should have the choice to go on a treatment which is untested. That's what people with AlS have been asking for YEARS and still cannot get because they have to follow the usual regulatory process.Cancer patients can get drugs as soon as Phase I, I don't see why we don't allow other patients who are in critical condition to try whatever is new out there. What do you have to lose?
The death rate from the current ebola is approximately 50%. While that sucks, what patients have to lose is both a 50% chance of living and their right not to be a playground for medical experimentation.
edit: and just who vets the people/companies who get to offer drugs to desperately ill people? Does anybody with $1k to buy needles get to make a sign and advertise curative injections? I'm sure glibertarian idiots will say it was a freely made choice, but choices made while infected with ebola (or even scared of being so infected) aren't freely taken, not to mention the asymmetric information.
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's just ugly to see an eagerness to think about invasions when not even simple supplies are not coming through. Liberian President, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf to Barack Obama: "I am being honest with you when I say that at this rate, we will never break the transmission chain and the virus will overwhelm us" "The dilemma" of invasion and whatnot is beside the point. The Liberian state is desperate. Johnson Sirleaf also…
Agreed. There's no 'invasion' when you're being invited in on a humanitarian mission. People need help.
I'm sure the folks we point guns at will agree. No, better -- they'll welcome us with open arms and throw flowers at us!
(In case you're dense, just like the last time we tried to bomb a country into freedumb.)
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#114http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/1084... I'm afraid some people either think this is a game, or just an opportunity - since most of the worlds problems today stem from overpopulation.
>since most of the worlds problems today stem from overpopulation Why do you think that most of the world's problems today stem from overpopulation? What problems? If you're talking about hunger, that's demonstrably false. There is plenty of food produced to feed the entire population. Even African produces plenty of food to feed itself. Famine occurs in times of war and natural disaster, or other great upheavals. Mo…
> What problems?
Uh - collapsing ecosystems? More to the point, encroachment of humans into wilderness areas which harbor viruses? The biggest 'man-made' issue here is more 'man': mindless reproduction and consumption without any regard to the future.
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
All of the world religions disagree with you.
That you have been downvoted is very telling of the crowd that CS people are. We pretend to be all rational professionals on our high horses, decorated with degrees and what not.. And yet, when something manages to hit us on an emotional level we falter. What Afforess said is a statement of fact and relevant to the discusssion. Thus it's a valid counterpoint. You may not like it and you may not agree with it .. you m…
I would recommend you to stop making such sweeping generalizations about "CS crowd" and educate yourself on deontological vs consequentialist ethics debate. Yes, religions are firmly in the deontological camp and it showed during the millenia of superstition, witchhunts and obstruction of scientific progress.
Btw, as far as I see the only one on the high horse in this comment thread is you.
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ethical theory is not much use once you are dead.
All of the world religions disagree with you.
Most of them do, however they disagree in a lot of different and often entirely contradictory ways.
So given the problem of doing something about a disaster, trying to keep all the different belief systems happy at the same time will just stop you from doing anything. You can't keep all the different belief systems happy when there isn't a disaster and lives to save, trying to do it when there is seems to be just setting yourself up to fail from the outset.
Also, given the context of disease, stopping it spreading is not a wholly altruistic act. This is about self-preservation as much as anything else and most of the world's religions are pretty clear on what you are allowed to do to others when the tribe is threatened. The religious reaction to this in many cases would be mass slaughter.
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#117Time to face some brutal facts here. 1) We are due for another pandemic. If this one isn't it, there will be another. 2) Democracies run on public opinion. Right now everybody is riled up about some homicidal idiots in Iraq. This is off their radar. Hundreds of thousands of people die from some natural cause or another all of the time. It's not a huge spectacle on YouTube. 3) The enemy really isn't Ebola. Ebola is ju…
> We are due for another pandemic.
What do you mean by this?
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
And who pays for the, potentially unbounded fallout from that decision ? Let's say this happens : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide (First read about the advantages of the drug, then move to the crises. in particular the birth defects crisis) And please don't just say that people knowingly took the risk, read the article first to see how that played out. People won't accept the consequences of decisions made u…
So you're suggesting that we let potentially hundreds of thousands of people die to prevent a potential tort lawsuit? Would you be ok if we shoot them if they try and leave the quarantine though to get an unapproved treatment? Do you see how crazy your logic is? The benefit of Thalidomide was that it prevented morning sickness and you're comparing that to treatment of a disease with a fatality rate of greater than 50…
It seems reasonably proportionate not to suspend all regulations on drug testing. If you did that then the vitamin peddlers out to make a fast buck would swamp anything that might actually help. The amount of con artists massively outnumbers the amount of people with a cure for Ebola.
I agree that it may be an idea to look at trying some of the experimental treatments, however given there is a 50% chance of surviving with palliative care and that we know how to stop it spreading given the resources, I am not sure that turning the situation into an unregulated free-for-all for every quack looking to make their name will really help matters.
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#119http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/1084... I'm afraid some people either think this is a game, or just an opportunity - since most of the worlds problems today stem from overpopulation.
>since most of the worlds problems today stem from overpopulation Why do you think that most of the world's problems today stem from overpopulation? What problems? If you're talking about hunger, that's demonstrably false. There is plenty of food produced to feed the entire population. Even African produces plenty of food to feed itself. Famine occurs in times of war and natural disaster, or other great upheavals. Mo…
I would argue that war can be a result of overpopulation. Famine is also - it occurs in the places least able to deal with ebola. "Global warming" - we could reduce emissions by reducing population without changing the per capita energy consumption. Unemployment - not enough jobs is the same thing as too many people. Strife in the middle east? Too many people in that area of the world with not enough resource (or governments that squander what they have).
I'm not saying all of these are correct in an absolute sense, just that population certainly plays a role.
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? When you are going to die you should have the choice to go on a treatment which is untested. That's what people with AlS have been asking for YEARS and still cannot get because they have to follow the usual regulatory process.Cancer patients can get drugs as soon as Phase I, I don't see why we don't allow other patients who are in critical condition to try whatever is new out there. What do you have to lose?
The death rate from the current ebola is approximately 50%. While that sucks, what patients have to lose is both a 50% chance of living and their right not to be a playground for medical experimentation. edit: and just who vets the people/companies who get to offer drugs to desperately ill people? Does anybody with $1k to buy needles get to make a sign and advertise curative injections? I'm sure glibertarian idiots w…
> edit: and just who vets the people/companies who get to offer drugs to desperately ill people?
Look at the scientists who were helping fight Ebola in Africa. When they discovered they were infected as well they had the chance to take a new treatment and they took it. And they recovered.
The question of who decides is important, I'm not saying it should be overlooked but the possibility is not even there for those who actually want to take it desperately. And no need to throw the "libertarian" word for everything you disagree with, we are talking about having choice here.