Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's just say not all of us believe in Utilitarian theories of Ethics.
Ethical theory is not much use once you are dead.
All of the world religions disagree with you.
The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
81–90 of 176 posts
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#82Going 'meta' for a moment, this is a tragedy of huge proportions, the question I have been considering is whether or not it is even possible to avoid? Updates from MSF which highlight the level of mistrust and superstition amongst the infected population, where people hide their sick relatives from isolation wards and take them back to their village. We cannot exactly put a giant fence around the place (and not that…
They didn't hesitate to send troops for some bullshit reason, why hesitate now when it's actually beneficial (assuming it is executed correctly which may or may not be the case)?
Right, because it is not beneficial right now (it's not like there is oil in there) and we can always take action later when it gets closer and more serious.
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#83Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) is on the ground and is one of the most effective ways to directly support efforts to aid Ebola victims and stop the spread (disclosure: I just donated):
https://donate.doctorswithoutborders.org
The health systems in these countries were already overwhelmed and under-resourced long before Ebola broke out, and the international governmental response has so far been alarmingly tepid.
Recent AmA with an MSF doctor:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2g79ip/i_work_for_doct...
Note that MSF has an excellent efficiency rating (~87% of revenue goes to program expenses, 11% to fundraising):
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary...
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#84http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/1084... I'm afraid some people either think this is a game, or just an opportunity - since most of the worlds problems today stem from overpopulation.
Some might even classify it as "good". Mao once said:
“I’m not afraid of nuclear war. There are 2.7 billion people in the world; it doesn’t matter if some are killed. China has a population of 600 million; even if half of them are killed, there are still 300 million people left. I’m not afraid of anyone.”
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/4758-maos-nuclear-mass-extin...
BTW Ebola propagation maps I've seen show China having the slowest penetration rate of all nations.
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#85Going 'meta' for a moment, this is a tragedy of huge proportions, the question I have been considering is whether or not it is even possible to avoid? Updates from MSF which highlight the level of mistrust and superstition amongst the infected population, where people hide their sick relatives from isolation wards and take them back to their village. We cannot exactly put a giant fence around the place (and not that…
The American perspective is to solve every problem with the military or money. We believe that violence and more money are the only effective solutions to every single problem the world faces. Original thinking just doesn't happen. A creative solution would be to temporarily halt all regulations on anti-ebola drug development and let them experiment on any willing person in Liberia who wishes to receive treatment. Th…
And who pays for the, potentially unbounded fallout from that decision ?
Let's say this happens : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide
(First read about the advantages of the drug, then move to the crises. in particular the birth defects crisis)
And please don't just say that people knowingly took the risk, read the article first to see how that played out.
People won't accept the consequences of decisions made under duress (and this decision would be "death or we experiment on you". Decision to be made in an isolation camp, guarded by soldiers with guns), for obvious reasons, and this has been an accepted legal principle since a millenium before Jesus was born. You're suggesting just canceling it ? Really ?
What you're suggesting is a really, really, really, really bad idea.
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
The American perspective is to solve every problem with the military or money. We believe that violence and more money are the only effective solutions to every single problem the world faces. Original thinking just doesn't happen. A creative solution would be to temporarily halt all regulations on anti-ebola drug development and let them experiment on any willing person in Liberia who wishes to receive treatment. Th…
And who pays for the, potentially unbounded fallout from that decision ? Let's say this happens : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide (First read about the advantages of the drug, then move to the crises. in particular the birth defects crisis) And please don't just say that people knowingly took the risk, read the article first to see how that played out. People won't accept the consequences of decisions made u…
I would argue there are at least a few orders of magnitude between someone with morning sickness and someone who will almost definitely die of Ebola or T1 Diabetes.
It's a calculated risk, sure, but I don't think the Thalidomide example is particularly relevant.
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
The American perspective is to solve every problem with the military or money. We believe that violence and more money are the only effective solutions to every single problem the world faces. Original thinking just doesn't happen. A creative solution would be to temporarily halt all regulations on anti-ebola drug development and let them experiment on any willing person in Liberia who wishes to receive treatment. Th…
And who pays for the, potentially unbounded fallout from that decision ? Let's say this happens : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide (First read about the advantages of the drug, then move to the crises. in particular the birth defects crisis) And please don't just say that people knowingly took the risk, read the article first to see how that played out. People won't accept the consequences of decisions made u…
So you're suggesting that we let potentially hundreds of thousands of people die to prevent a potential tort lawsuit? Would you be ok if we shoot them if they try and leave the quarantine though to get an unapproved treatment? Do you see how crazy your logic is? The benefit of Thalidomide was that it prevented morning sickness and you're comparing that to treatment of a disease with a fatality rate of greater than 50%! You have no sense of proportion at all!
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#88Going 'meta' for a moment, this is a tragedy of huge proportions, the question I have been considering is whether or not it is even possible to avoid? Updates from MSF which highlight the level of mistrust and superstition amongst the infected population, where people hide their sick relatives from isolation wards and take them back to their village. We cannot exactly put a giant fence around the place (and not that…
They didn't hesitate to send troops for some bullshit reason, why hesitate now when it's actually beneficial (assuming it is executed correctly which may or may not be the case)? Right, because it is not beneficial right now (it's not like there is oil in there) and we can always take action later when it gets closer and more serious.
There's lots of oil in that part of the world. Nigeria is a major producer and there are lots of promising fields off Liberia and Sierra Leone.
https://lukoil-overseas.com/press-centre/7059.php
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#89The article this Wired post is mostly reblogging is quite a bit better imo, at least in having a higher ratio of facts to commentary: http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=2...
Seriously, what utter crap: http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Nishiura-cur...
Did they seriously screenshot that image with a tooltip up?
Re: The Mathematics of Ebola Trigger Stark Warnings
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you bring up some good points and I don't mean to discount the moral dilemma here, but in reality such moral considerations are hardly ever considered. I don't think the article is suggesting invasion, but if that was the best solution, I don't see a problem with it if it prevents an epidemic or worse, a world wide pandemic(especially if it mutates into airborne transmission). After all, the US has invaded ma…
It's just ugly to see an eagerness to think about invasions when not even simple supplies are not coming through. Liberian President, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf to Barack Obama: "I am being honest with you when I say that at this rate, we will never break the transmission chain and the virus will overwhelm us" "The dilemma" of invasion and whatnot is beside the point. The Liberian state is desperate. Johnson Sirleaf also…
You misunderstood. I'm not saying that invasion should happen or that it is even a proper choice at this time, only weighing in on the morality of it in light of American invasion history if at some point it happens to be the best choice.