Live data from Hacker News

Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

nplusonemag.com

71–79 of 79 posts

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#71
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the US prison population just 0.00730843528654% of our country's total population? Citation needed. In fact, the figure is 0.94% in jail, and 2.9% in one or more of jail/probation/parole: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_Sta... Quote: "According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state pris…

Oh I only counted the people actually inside a prison. I didn't think probation or parole counted in this argument since they're not locked up. 2,266,800 / 319,000,000 = 0.710595611% Forgot to move some decimals in my previous post

Still wrong. The correct figure compares those incarcerated to total adults in the population.

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#72
One big thing this article misses is that crime has been falling worldwide by a similar rate as in America (http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21582041-rich-world-s...).

So prisons do disproportionately imprison the lower classes and far far too many people are put in disgusting prisons to be tortured and treated like subhumans in the US but that doesn't necessarily mean it has caused the big drop in crime.

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#73

Wow, very powerful article. I agree that our prison system is America's biggest moral wrong, and I hope that history books in 50 years write about how sad and unjust it is in our time. That said, does anyone know what proposed solutions are? When the author talks of abolishing the prison system in exchange for higher crime rates (and potentially even more deaths by the state), does he literally mean we should close a…

The problem presented is very real, but the proposed "solution" is absurd. There are plenty of way functional prison systems. As long as we stop dehumanizing felons and normalizing crimes against them, I see no reason why reform is impossible.

The money for this is not available. It is an ideal that cannot be attained.

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#74

Wow, very powerful article. I agree that our prison system is America's biggest moral wrong, and I hope that history books in 50 years write about how sad and unjust it is in our time. That said, does anyone know what proposed solutions are? When the author talks of abolishing the prison system in exchange for higher crime rates (and potentially even more deaths by the state), does he literally mean we should close a…

What would happen if there was not a prison system at all?

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#75
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I only counted the people actually inside a prison. I didn't think probation or parole counted in this argument since they're not locked up. 2,266,800 / 319,000,000 = 0.710595611% Forgot to move some decimals in my previous post

Still wrong. The correct figure compares those incarcerated to total adults in the population.

How is this wrong when even children benefit from keeping violent criminals isolated from the general population? Besides accounting for just adults still doesn't detract from my main point: the vast majority of people in the US benefit from keeping violent felons locked up

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#76
Lately we've seen a number of well written, compelling articles about reforming the U.S. criminal justice system. There was one not long ago about a woman who moved to a poor inner-city neighborhood for a while and wrote about it. Here is another one.

But these articles always have a missing piece: why are there so many crimes committed? In the above-mentioned article, it was noted that many of the woman's neighbors would never call the police, as to do so would result in a check on possible warrants for their arrest. But with no further explanation, you've just lost the hordes of right-leaning American suburban whites. They'll think, "There are no warrants out for my arrest, because I don't go around committing crimes. Why can't these people do the same?"

Similarly, this article discusses the case of "petty thief" Roderick Johnson, who was used as a sex slave in prison, and raped daily for a year and a half. And then:

> After Johnson got out, he lodged a civil suit against six guards who he said refused to help him. In 2005, a Wichita Falls jury found in favor of the guards. In 2007, after passing a note to a clerk at a gas station that read, “I have 9 mm. Put the money in the bag,” Johnson was arrested again. This time, since Johnson was a repeat offender, he got nineteen years.

And my proverbial suburban white thinks, "If you don't want to be a sex slave, then stop pulling armed robberies of gas stations, ya moron!" And a long overdue discussion has been nipped in the bud.

This issue desperately needs to be addressed. The left isn't going to fix this problem on its own. We need broad societal support. But as it is, half the population of the U.S. has an easy argument allowing them to dismiss proposals from articles like this one.

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem presented is very real, but the proposed "solution" is absurd. There are plenty of way functional prison systems. As long as we stop dehumanizing felons and normalizing crimes against them, I see no reason why reform is impossible.

The money for this is not available. It is an ideal that cannot be attained.

The current system actually costs more to society, so the money is definitely available.

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasonable prison systems incarcerate much smaller percentages of their populations than the USA one does. Any reform worth contemplating will result in the release of many prisoners, and the closure of prisons in all but the most overcrowded states.

Agreed. But the reform proposed in the article stated unconditional "abolishment" as the goal. That is crazy.

So systemic and institutional torture is fine, as long as the rest of us are marginally "safer".

Re: Raise the Crime Rate (2012)

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is, prisons like all government institutions are controlled by fads and fears and money - Senators don't do anything until votes are at stake or campaigning dollars. So nothing happens for a long time, and then Bang some extreme measure is passed to show that they care or something. We closed the mental institutions and released folks into the general population, and that didn't work very well. Closing the pr…

Closing the prisons would be worse, because some of the people in there actually mean to do us harm. This doesn't follow. Prisons are not equivalent to mental health institutions; there's a lot more at play there.

After the mental health facilities were closed, they pretty much became the same thing.
Post reply on HN