Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

vox.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 303 posts

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#281

Post by dllthomas »

elblanco wrote: post #279
dllthomas wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'For fun find a cyclist discussion somewhere where they complain about something like this and post a mildly worded suggestion and see what kind of response you get. I absolutely guarantee it won't be "yeah, you know what, maybe we should be observing traffic laws like we're supposed to"' The East Bay Bicycle Coalition, at least, explicitly tells bikers to abide by the laws, and offers classes in (amongst other thing…

Part of the problem is that people get bikes as kids, then as they got older just start using them on the road without any real understanding of the laws and regulations on bikes. They don't realize that it's a vehicle, there's no required driver training, or licensing or anything to ride a bike on the road like with a car. As kids you can kind of ride your bike wherever you want, as adults riders just sort of expand…

I agree that this is a root cause of some of the problems we see. I do think those problems are less prevalent than some assert, but I'd love for them to be less prevalent still. I approve of increased enforcement of the laws that apply to bicycles, provided the enforcement was sane and prioritized safety.

Note that the bicycle safety classes I mention above was not only free, they gave out free lights to boot!

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#282

Post by elblanco »

dllthomas wrote: post #271
elblanco wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I think he's right. At least around where I live (well, used to live, I'm in Korea at the moment), cyclists are not supposed to ride on roads that disrupt traffic or don't have a sufficient shoulder to pull off onto to let vehicles pass. By contrast in Korea, they're not supposed to use roads at all and you'll find everything from bikes to scooters sharing sidewalks with people on foot. But bikes aren't real commo…

The subthread was specifically discussing California. It remains my understanding that he was incorrect about CA law - cited specifically, above.

ehhh...You're probably right. I dunno about CA law.

looking up the conversation, recursive and you seem kind of hung up on this wording "unless it's necessary for the safe operation" which I would interpret as meaning not just speed but actual safety. Of course it's not safe (or possible) to operate a bike at 100 kph. But I personally also don't feel safe clinging to the right most bit of a lane with a dropoff inches away while vehicles whizz around me.

I try not to ride on roads with poor bike safety without having to consult the law, but it seems like that phrase basically enshrines what I already do. If it's a fast road with no shoulder, I really try hard no find a path that doesn't take me on it. Yeah, sometimes you can't avoid it. But I'm not going to get upset with somebody who would rather not be driving their car in the same lane as me. I don't want to be in the lane with them either!

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#283

Post by elblanco »

dragonwriter wrote: post #278
elblanco wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't understand where most tax dollars go in the U.S. I'm in Korea at the moment and the tax burden is overall very light when compared to the States, but the level of service you receive is absolutely tremendous for the most part. Example, if you make over around $85,000 USD, you fall into the maximum tax bracket, which is 35%. Most people pay around 25%. As a foreigner, I can also pay an alternative 17.…

> Example, if you make over around $85,000 USD, you fall into the maximum tax bracket, which is 35%. In the US, the maximum income bracket has a 39.6% marginal rate and is reached at $400,001 in AGI for a single filer; the (weirdly narrow) 35% bracket starts at $398,351. So if Korea has a 35% top bracket, witha 10% surtax, that starts around $85,000 USD, I'm not seeing how that's "overall very light when compared to…

Hmmm...maybe you're right. For some reason I feel like I pay less here. I definitely get more service at least.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#284

Post by elblanco »

dllthomas wrote: post #281
elblanco wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that people get bikes as kids, then as they got older just start using them on the road without any real understanding of the laws and regulations on bikes. They don't realize that it's a vehicle, there's no required driver training, or licensing or anything to ride a bike on the road like with a car. As kids you can kind of ride your bike wherever you want, as adults riders just sort of expand…

I agree that this is a root cause of some of the problems we see. I do think those problems are less prevalent than some assert, but I'd love for them to be less prevalent still. I approve of increased enforcement of the laws that apply to bicycles, provided the enforcement was sane and prioritized safety. Note that the bicycle safety classes I mention above was not only free, they gave out free lights to boot!

> Note that the bicycle safety classes I mention above was not only free, they gave out free lights to boot!

Oh that's awesome. I would have loved to have had something like that. Do you know if they have local police come in and give safety talks as well? Cops see everything and they have all kinds of stories and advice to give.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#285

Post by elblanco »

dllthomas wrote: post #270
elblanco wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least where I grew up, bikes were not supposed to ride on roads without sufficient shoulder for them to pull out of the way of vehicles. The flip side is that there's a big lobby that tries to ensure that most roads have such a shoulder. Lots of rural roads don't have them, but I've found that it's better for me as both a driver and a cyclist to have such shoulders in the case I need to pull off or out of the way…

Certainly it all varies location to location. I'm unaware of a regulation like you suggest in CA, and don't believe there is one - where did you grow up? It's certainly the case that it's better and safer to ride (or drive) where you have space to stop, and that that should be preferred when picking a route or building a road, but other concerns can sometimes wind up dominating.

Maryland. The law may have changed or I might be wrong about it. They used to not require helmets either. Growing up we used to get all kinds of community safety advice from the local schools and safe biking was a big push. I don't know that a similar "safe driving around bikers" ever happened though.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#286

Post by bane »

nknighthb wrote: post #244
bane wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.nycedc.com/blog-entry/new-yorkers-and-cars

Those are the statistics I'm aware of, yes. Not listed is the supposed statistic I'm seeking.

The statistics are murky. According to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_New_York_Cit...

less than 30% use cars daily, but even then that's something over 2 million cars from city residents alone. I would't drive if I lived in Manhattan or along the subway in another borough, but there's some places it makes sense.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#287

Post by bane »

dllthomas wrote: post #260
bane wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there is a specific impediment law.

That's a stupid response. You're the only one who has made claims about what holds in "every state". I don't know enough about the situation in other states to say anything - it's conceivable (if unlikely) that every other state than the one I happen to know about works the way you say; but that still makes it "not every state", and means it applies to a good 12% of Americans. Edited to add: The comment above was cha…

> That's a stupid response.

So what's stupid about the response? Either their is or there isn't an impediment law. It sounds like there is, just that "impediment" has been specifically defined in CA.

I feel like you were asserting there wasn't an impediment law, then citing me one. Maybe I'm just irritated at everybody else and it's bleeding over into this thread.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#288

Post by dllthomas »

elblanco wrote: post #282
dllthomas wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subthread was specifically discussing California. It remains my understanding that he was incorrect about CA law - cited specifically, above.

ehhh...You're probably right. I dunno about CA law. looking up the conversation, recursive and you seem kind of hung up on this wording "unless it's necessary for the safe operation" which I would interpret as meaning not just speed but actual safety. Of course it's not safe (or possible) to operate a bike at 100 kph. But I personally also don't feel safe clinging to the right most bit of a lane with a dropoff inches…

"But I personally also don't feel safe clinging to the right most bit of a lane with a dropoff inches away while vehicles whizz around me."

Right, I have no compunction taking the lane when the shoulder gets dangerous. Safety is always the concern. Note, for instance, that one of the specific times you're told you don't have to stay right (21202a4 - https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21202.html) is when a car might try to make a right turn through you (a frequent way for cyclists to get hit).

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#289

Post by bane »

elblanco wrote: post #277
DanBC wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find any law that probibits bicycles from general use roads - there are none. But Cyclists are probibited from a small number of roads. The obvious conclusion is that some roads are too dangerous for cyclists and the rest are not. At least, not until self stupid cunts who are just bad drivers and who think they own the fucking road get behind the wheel. Your entire point seems to be "I am a selfish and bad driver, so…

You guys have carried this disagreement all over this post. I think bane's point is that even though it's perfectly legal to ride a bike wherever a car can go (which is not true in some cases like highways and visa-versa like biketrails), it may just not be a good idea. I know when I ride I purposely try to avoid roads that have poor space for bikes. I don't feel safe and I don't want a distracted driver running me o…

> I think bane's point is that even though it's perfectly legal to ride a bike wherever a car can go (which is not true in some cases like highways and visa-versa like biketrails), it may just not be a good idea.

Basically. But DanBC obviously wants to push some kind of agenda to the point of absurdity.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#290

Post by dllthomas »

elblanco wrote: post #284
dllthomas wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this is a root cause of some of the problems we see. I do think those problems are less prevalent than some assert, but I'd love for them to be less prevalent still. I approve of increased enforcement of the laws that apply to bicycles, provided the enforcement was sane and prioritized safety. Note that the bicycle safety classes I mention above was not only free, they gave out free lights to boot!

> Note that the bicycle safety classes I mention above was not only free, they gave out free lights to boot! Oh that's awesome. I would have loved to have had something like that. Do you know if they have local police come in and give safety talks as well? Cops see everything and they have all kinds of stories and advice to give.

There weren't any cops there the time I went - that could be great or go poorly, depending on the cop... but probably something worth looking into (idk if they have).
Post reply on HN