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No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

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Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#91
post #32

Oxygen is bad for us. It oxidizes and damages all kinds of organic chemicals in our bodies that are required for use to live. Oxidization, however, is exactly what provides us with the energy that supports life. Salts are electrolytes. (Electrolytes are salts?) You need them in your body so that your nervous system can conduct signals and keep things going - like your heart. We live. We grow. We hurt. We heal. We get…

Sounds good as a philosophy, but let's make it concrete and see where you stand: if you knew for a fact that not eating sugar would allow you to live for 6.35 years longer, would you still eat sugar?

I think this is a bit of a false dichotomy. There's obviously going to be a sliding scale of life expectancy effects, and at some point, people are probably going to be willing to give up a few months of their life to be able to enjoy the time they have more.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#92
post #59
post #32

Oxygen is bad for us. It oxidizes and damages all kinds of organic chemicals in our bodies that are required for use to live. Oxidization, however, is exactly what provides us with the energy that supports life. Salts are electrolytes. (Electrolytes are salts?) You need them in your body so that your nervous system can conduct signals and keep things going - like your heart. We live. We grow. We hurt. We heal. We get…

>>Rather that avoiding "omg sugar" or "omg salt" or "omg fat," we should just be eating well-rounded diets. Define well-rounded. ;) Isn't that what we're all trying to decide? We even have some people on here claiming McDonald's can be part of a balanced healthy diet.

"Well-rounded diet," n.; a large variety of foods from a large variety of ingredients. --Dictionary of Delinka :-D

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#93
post #2

The state of nutrition science is pathetic. The science is conflicted over a simple question of fact -- whether or not a trivially measurable short-term effect occurs when you eat one of the most common food additives in the world. If we can't even answer THIS -- it seems like it should be incredibly easy to answer -- I don't see why people can claim anything at all about diets and macronutrients. Nutrition science n…

I read something interesting about high GI vs low GI foods that I didn't know [1]. The TL;DR "The GI value of a food is determined when it’s eaten in isolation after an overnight fast. As in, this is how this food will affect your blood sugar when it’s the FIRST and ONLY thing you’re eating after a full night of not eating anything." So the whole high GI is bad thing taken to the extreme e.g. clean eating, is probabl…

Don't be silly. That measurement technique is to allow you to isolate and measure the effect. You seem to want to infer that the effect does not occur in any other circumstances.

That is as inane as disregarding crash test dummy results because they take place in a controlled environment which is not the same as 'real life'.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've decided to eat eggs every other day, to balance out the reports that they're good and bad.

But do you eat the big endian first? Or the little endian?

Grade A Jumbo Endian

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#95
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read something interesting about high GI vs low GI foods that I didn't know [1]. The TL;DR "The GI value of a food is determined when it’s eaten in isolation after an overnight fast. As in, this is how this food will affect your blood sugar when it’s the FIRST and ONLY thing you’re eating after a full night of not eating anything." So the whole high GI is bad thing taken to the extreme e.g. clean eating, is probabl…

Don't be silly. That measurement technique is to allow you to isolate and measure the effect. You seem to want to infer that the effect does not occur in any other circumstances. That is as inane as disregarding crash test dummy results because they take place in a controlled environment which is not the same as 'real life'.

It's not silly, at least not on the face of it to a complete duffer in nutritional science (me). Intuitively it seems like nutrition is a highly interdependent system of variables. The effect of a food on your body and blood chemistry might be completely different when consumed in combination with other foods.

Or it might not. Testable! Give subjects the same combinations of foods (maybe scaled by body weight) a set time before consuming the test food, and measure blood sugar delta.

In any case, it might be wrong but it's not silly.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#96
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read something interesting about high GI vs low GI foods that I didn't know [1]. The TL;DR "The GI value of a food is determined when it’s eaten in isolation after an overnight fast. As in, this is how this food will affect your blood sugar when it’s the FIRST and ONLY thing you’re eating after a full night of not eating anything." So the whole high GI is bad thing taken to the extreme e.g. clean eating, is probabl…

Don't be silly. That measurement technique is to allow you to isolate and measure the effect. You seem to want to infer that the effect does not occur in any other circumstances. That is as inane as disregarding crash test dummy results because they take place in a controlled environment which is not the same as 'real life'.

Diet is complicated. Its not at all obvious you can 'control' for an effect in a complex chemical system like your body. In fact its known that you can't.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that energy burned is not by any means a 1:1 correlation with exercised performed. We are inefficient machines, and our efficiency characteristics vary wildly in ways we don't fully understand. Two people consuming the same quantity of energy and exerting the same number of joules on exercise equipment do not see identical or even necessarily related physiological effects. There are many, many factors - other…

> Except that energy burned is not by any means a 1:1 correlation with exercised performed. We are inefficient machines, and our efficiency characteristics vary wildly in ways we don't fully understand. Your basal metabolic rate is not much different from the guy next to you of similar age and weight, barring some extremely rare circumstance. I don't know what to tell you, other than that. > Two people consuming the…

I was with you until the last sentence. I'm from a whole family of skinny people. We eat like horses, just to maintain our weight. Nobody gets even a little tummy bulge until they're 45 or 50. My middle son is currently 6'3" and 150 lbs and eats constantly, the highest-calorie foods available to him, as much as several other people. Always has. When in high school for an after-school snack we baked one frozen pizza for the family, one for him.

This is clearly some genetic thing - I was the same way; my nieces are the same way (one getting married in a size 2, that had to be taken in). Eats ice cream by the quart, as often as she can get it.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#98
post #95
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be silly. That measurement technique is to allow you to isolate and measure the effect. You seem to want to infer that the effect does not occur in any other circumstances. That is as inane as disregarding crash test dummy results because they take place in a controlled environment which is not the same as 'real life'.

It's not silly, at least not on the face of it to a complete duffer in nutritional science (me). Intuitively it seems like nutrition is a highly interdependent system of variables. The effect of a food on your body and blood chemistry might be completely different when consumed in combination with other foods. Or it might not. Testable! Give subjects the same combinations of foods (maybe scaled by body weight) a set…

I stand by my verdict. He was stating that ring fenced measurements are blown out of proportion because they do not reflect real life behaviour. I'd expect a citation otherwise I am happy to dismiss it as silly.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except that energy burned is not by any means a 1:1 correlation with exercised performed. We are inefficient machines, and our efficiency characteristics vary wildly in ways we don't fully understand. Your basal metabolic rate is not much different from the guy next to you of similar age and weight, barring some extremely rare circumstance. I don't know what to tell you, other than that. > Two people consuming the…

I was with you until the last sentence. I'm from a whole family of skinny people. We eat like horses, just to maintain our weight. Nobody gets even a little tummy bulge until they're 45 or 50. My middle son is currently 6'3" and 150 lbs and eats constantly, the highest-calorie foods available to him, as much as several other people. Always has. When in high school for an after-school snack we baked one frozen pizza f…

Oh and our cholesterol is 125 too. And no heart disease.

Folks, denial isn't an argument, so please say something instead of just clicking down. I've just mentioned all this not as a straw-man but because a claim of an absolute (Everybody who is skinny isn't eating much) can be disputed by a single counter-example. That's all.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#100
To me, it sounds like poor, little, old, suffering 'Time' magazine is trying to get eyeballs.

The article sounds like a total yawn to me, that is, just old and obvious. So, I long understood: If eat some food with some table salt, that is, NaCl, then within an hour or so likely the salt concentration in blood will increase and then blood pressure will increase. But, the body has a system that regulates salt concentration; so, if the salt concentration is too high, then the body will lower the salt concentration, and the usual way is to flush out the extra salt in urine. So, net, likely within a few hours, the salt concentration will be back to where the body wants it. Typically, for reasonably healthy people, no biggie.

Somewhat separately there is a disease called hypertension which means high blood pressure, and such blood pressure can be dangerous, e.g., cause blood vessels to break and leak, say, in the brain -- not good. If a person has this disease, then extra salt that further increases blood pressure, even just for a few hours, can be not good. So, for such a person, a standard recommendation is to reduce input of salt: So, e.g., don't sit around eating salted peanuts, potato chips, etc.

But does eating salt cause the disease hypertension? Nope.

Then, bingo, presto, wonder of wonders, the mass media, always eager for getting eyeballs, often by grabbing people, by the heart, the gut, below the belt, always below the shoulders, never between the ears, comes out screaming about salt suggesting that salt, exploiting really simplistic thinking, is somehow bad. Or, since people are sensitive to suggestions or symptoms of danger, suggesting that salt is bad can get eyeballs.

Then companies that manufacture and want to sell food products, say, bread, may see a selling opportunity, lower the amount of salt in their products, and then scream on their product labels that their products are healthy because they are low salt.

We can see how the mass media and their food product advertising customers have a common interest: The media raises fears about salt, and the food companies scream that their products are healthy because they are low in salt. It's deliberate confusion and deception, that is, in a word, a scam, all in an attempt to get money from ordinary people.

This scam has been going on for decades. E.g., back in the 1980s I was in the house of some friends; they were in their 20s and in perfect health, with perfect weight, etc. The husband was a good athlete, and his wife was drop dead gorgeous. But the wife was cooking with low salt based on the scam, i.e., that salt would cause hypertension, which of course it would not.

Or, as in the title here, "No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure", of course not. There never was any such association. Salt does not cause hypertension; there's never been any competent claim that salt did cause hypertension.

So, now Time gets another way to grab eyeballs -- debunk the scam that for at least three decades has had way too many people thinking the total nonsense that salt causes hypertension.

For the media, there's a pattern here: To get eyeballs, create a scam. Then, later, maybe decades later, to get more eyeballs, debunk the scam. Then continue with more scams -- there are many possible scams.

So, net, salt does not cause the disease hypertension, and the media likes to use scams to get eyeballs. Virginia, if you didn't already know this, then listen up and learn. I mean, by now, we expected something else?

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