No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds • Hacker News Board

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#31

Post by bronbron » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 1:53 AM UTC

lukeschlather wrote: post #29

bronbron wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nutrition isn't exclusively (or even primarily) about weight loss. Maintaining a healthy weight is the primary health problem for the vast majority of people concerned about their personal nutrition.

Keeping weight low is the primary metric that people currently track and associate with their health, but that doesn't mean weight is the primary problem, just that people think it is.

> Keeping weight low is the primary metric that people currently track and associate with their health, but that doesn't mean weight is the primary problem, just that people think it is.

It absolutely is the primary problem for most people concerned with nutritional issues in developed nations. Obesity (which is quickly becoming the epidemic it's made out to be) carries all sorts of nasty side-effects that are well documented.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#32

Post by delinka » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 1:56 AM UTC

Oxygen is bad for us. It oxidizes and damages all kinds of organic chemicals in our bodies that are required for use to live. Oxidization, however, is exactly what provides us with the energy that supports life.

Salts are electrolytes. (Electrolytes are salts?) You need them in your body so that your nervous system can conduct signals and keep things going - like your heart.

We live. We grow. We hurt. We heal. We get sick. We recover. We age. We wear out. We die.

Rather that avoiding "omg sugar" or "omg salt" or "omg fat," we should just be eating well-rounded diets. Have some beef today. And some pork tomorrow. And some fish after that. Have some fruit. And veggies. And a bit of dessert. And a spoonful of honey. And some powdered sugar on that syrup'd French toast. Just don't eat large piles of stuff for a meal. And don't eat the same thing every day.

Life's gonna kill you. Just don't clog up your body with excessive amounts of the same thing and you probably won't die early.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#33

Post by fidotron » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 2:02 AM UTC

lincolnq wrote: post #2

The state of nutrition science is pathetic. The science is conflicted over a simple question of fact -- whether or not a trivially measurable short-term effect occurs when you eat one of the most common food additives in the world. If we can't even answer THIS -- it seems like it should be incredibly easy to answer -- I don't see why people can claim anything at all about diets and macronutrients. Nutrition science n…

I think this is the big area big data analysis will end up revolutionising. The only problem is really getting reliable data into the system. Sensors in your mouth (probably in the teeth) are more obvious - sensors at the other end might be a harder sell.

And what goes for nutrition will work for drug interaction monitoring too.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#34

Post by huherto » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 2:04 AM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #9

bronbron wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we don't know basic things about what's good and bad for us. Errr, I think we know these 'basic' things quite fine. Energy burned needs to be >= energy taken in. It's just complicated for other reasons. There are a lot of incentives to stay unhealthy. There're the biological incentives (eating a shitload and packing on a few pounds is good if you're in the jungle and might not eat again for a few weeks), and the in…

Except that energy burned is not by any means a 1:1 correlation with exercised performed. We are inefficient machines, and our efficiency characteristics vary wildly in ways we don't fully understand. Two people consuming the same quantity of energy and exerting the same number of joules on exercise equipment do not see identical or even necessarily related physiological effects. There are many, many factors - other…

Something that has always bother me is why poo is not part of the equation. Do feces have no calories ?

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#35

Post by montecarl » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 2:10 AM UTC

delinka wrote: post #32

Oxygen is bad for us. It oxidizes and damages all kinds of organic chemicals in our bodies that are required for use to live. Oxidization, however, is exactly what provides us with the energy that supports life. Salts are electrolytes. (Electrolytes are salts?) You need them in your body so that your nervous system can conduct signals and keep things going - like your heart. We live. We grow. We hurt. We heal. We get…

I really like the general philosophy behind what you are saying. It has a nice ring to it. But saying to eat a well-rounded diet is not advice. Nobody has any good idea what a well rounded diet is.

You must eat fat (to obtain essential fatty acids). You must eat protein (to obtain essential amino acids). There are certain vitamins you must eat. And there are certain elements that you must consume.

The real question is how much of the required nutrients is enough and how much is too much?

What ratio of macronutrients (carbohydrates, protein, and fat) is ideal for maximizing health? Are there trade off for different ratios? For example, carbohydrates are not required for life, but most diets obtain a large portion of daily caloric intake from them. What percent of calories should be from carbohydrates?

Nobody yet knows what a well balanced diet is. In absence of that information, your advice is pretty good. Eat lots of different stuff.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#36

Post by melling » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 2:11 AM UTC

delinka wrote: post #32

Oxygen is bad for us. It oxidizes and damages all kinds of organic chemicals in our bodies that are required for use to live. Oxidization, however, is exactly what provides us with the energy that supports life. Salts are electrolytes. (Electrolytes are salts?) You need them in your body so that your nervous system can conduct signals and keep things going - like your heart. We live. We grow. We hurt. We heal. We get…

That's a nice philosophy that many people take. However, don't you think it would still be a great thing if we understood, at a much deeper leve,l how our bodies really work? It's like we're running around in the Middle Ages seeking enlightenment and the best we can come up with a bunch of large studies over many years.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#37

Post by bronbron » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 2:12 AM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #30

bronbron wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nutrition isn't exclusively (or even primarily) about weight loss. Maintaining a healthy weight is the primary health problem for the vast majority of people concerned about their personal nutrition.

Fair enough, but the article isn't about weight loss and a lot of research is done on how X food affects the chances of getting Y chronic condition later in life or how to best feed your children so they grow up to their full potential. It's pretty uninteresting to reduce nutrition science to simple dieting.

Sure, you're right that the article isn't about weight loss, but the original comment I was responding to was:

> Because a lot of people are suffering and dying of poor nutrition

In the developed world, they're mostly suffering and dying because of overconsumption (or reasonable consumption of really high-calorie food).

I'm not trying to say that I think it's as simple as 'put down the fork fatty!' or 'put the twinkie down!'.

I'm saying that instead of focusing on 'oh don't eat too many carbs' or 'lower your salt intake' as a silver bullet to 'why is our nutrition shit?', we should maybe be asking those harder questions: why is it so hard to put down the fork? how can we make it easier to be conscious of our caloric consumption?

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#38

Post by wutbrodo » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 2:16 AM UTC

huherto wrote: post #34

superuser2 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that energy burned is not by any means a 1:1 correlation with exercised performed. We are inefficient machines, and our efficiency characteristics vary wildly in ways we don't fully understand. Two people consuming the same quantity of energy and exerting the same number of joules on exercise equipment do not see identical or even necessarily related physiological effects. There are many, many factors - other…

Something that has always bother me is why poo is not part of the equation. Do feces have no calories ?

My understanding is that the Calories in each bit of food are intended to be "the amount of energy you absorb" (on average, I guess? in the same way that averages are used for how many you burn when exercising). So a better synonym than "energy" for Calories as used in nutrition might be "usable energy" (excluding the energy content of the food that you poo out).

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#39

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 2:19 AM UTC

huherto wrote: post #34

superuser2 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that energy burned is not by any means a 1:1 correlation with exercised performed. We are inefficient machines, and our efficiency characteristics vary wildly in ways we don't fully understand. Two people consuming the same quantity of energy and exerting the same number of joules on exercise equipment do not see identical or even necessarily related physiological effects. There are many, many factors - other…

Something that has always bother me is why poo is not part of the equation. Do feces have no calories ?

Feces is composed of material your body could not break down into usable nutrients, combined with materials your body is attempting to excrete.

Re: No Association Between Salt And Blood Pressure, Study Finds

#40

Post by eitally » Thu, Sep 11, 2014, 2:26 AM UTC

montecarl wrote: post #35

delinka wrote: post #32

Oxygen is bad for us. It oxidizes and damages all kinds of organic chemicals in our bodies that are required for use to live. Oxidization, however, is exactly what provides us with the energy that supports life. Salts are electrolytes. (Electrolytes are salts?) You need them in your body so that your nervous system can conduct signals and keep things going - like your heart. We live. We grow. We hurt. We heal. We get…

I really like the general philosophy behind what you are saying. It has a nice ring to it. But saying to eat a well-rounded diet is not advice. Nobody has any good idea what a well rounded diet is. You must eat fat (to obtain essential fatty acids). You must eat protein (to obtain essential amino acids). There are certain vitamins you must eat. And there are certain elements that you must consume. The real question i…

It's pretty good, but not as good as it could be. There's no disputing the fact that we're better off if most of our carb macros don't come from refined flours and sugars, that we shouldn't eat trans-fats, and that we should eat a lot more fresh produce than most people do. I like Michael Pollan's often quoted statment: “Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.”