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Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

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Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#161

Post by reitanqild »

7952 wrote: post #135
RyanMcGreal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but John Forester was wrong - not about the mechanics of vehicular cycling, but the psychology. I'm a year-round, go-anywhere cyclist who rides in mixed traffic on side streets and major arterials alike, and I understand that this puts me in an extreme minority: more than 99% of people simply will not ride a bike unless they have a safe-looking, physically protected space in which to do it. North America spent…

I am amazed how some people think that with more facilities everyone will start cycling. It is fun but also quite impractical and sometimes very uncomfortable. It is only really feasible for most people if they live close to their work. Cars make people live much further.

Not everyone. Around here however more and more people bike.

Me I drive the car some days and the bike other days. I wish for bike lanes equally much when I'm in the car and when I'm on my bike. (I'm a biker so I'm allowed to say this: Yes you are allowed to ride you bike in the main street around here but it shows a real lack of understanding when you have a row of cars queing up behind you, and a choice between a sidewalk, another route and several less crowded streets to choose from and still choose to use the main road.)

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#162

Post by snogglethorpe »

jrockway wrote: post #96
dominotw wrote: post #3

Having 2 of my coworkers killed this year on their bike( both by drunk drivers), I wont venture out on a bike until all my path is a completely protected from cars.

I almost got hit by a drunk driver in Chicago too. Incidentally, this happened right in front of a cop and I don't think that guy is driving anymore. There seem to be a lot more drunk drivers in Chicago than in New York. Weird.

My perception is that Chicago is generally more car-oriented than NYC, and that although Chicago has a pretty good public transit system, NYC's is much better.

[According to wikipedia, Chicago has a car mode-share of about 60% vs. 30% in NYC. However, that's probably dominated by commuting, and my guess would be that non-commuting uses (such as going to bars) would show an even more dramatic difference...]

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#163

Post by kasey_junk »

7952 wrote: post #135
RyanMcGreal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but John Forester was wrong - not about the mechanics of vehicular cycling, but the psychology. I'm a year-round, go-anywhere cyclist who rides in mixed traffic on side streets and major arterials alike, and I understand that this puts me in an extreme minority: more than 99% of people simply will not ride a bike unless they have a safe-looking, physically protected space in which to do it. North America spent…

I am amazed how some people think that with more facilities everyone will start cycling. It is fun but also quite impractical and sometimes very uncomfortable. It is only really feasible for most people if they live close to their work. Cars make people live much further.

Actually we all hope that with more facilities living much closer to your work becomes more viable.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#164

Post by snogglethorpe »

Zarathust wrote: post #25
kazinator wrote: post #4

The "before and after" picture at the bottom of the page shows that both "before" and "after" have bike lanes. The bike lane has grown from 5' to 6" and is separated by a buffer, but it was there before. What has sped up traffic is the creation of left turn pockets in the parking lane. But these could have been created in the "before" situation, by carving them out of the 8" curb-side parking lane. So, the claim that…

This article is horrible. The author also states that > One is that, for the most part, driving lanes weren't actually eliminated when they bike lanes were built — they were simply narrowed. But there is nothing to support the claim that narrower lanes speed up traffic. Also this phrase is copy pasted verbatim further down the article.

> But there is nothing to support the claim that narrower lanes speed up traffic

My impression is that the opposite is actually true: narrower lanes tend to make drivers feel more nervous/wary, and they slow down as a result.

Lane-narrowing (and "perceptual" narrowing, adding features that make it seem narrower to drivers without actually changing the amount of space) seems to be a fairly common traffic-calming technique.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#165

Post by nknighthb »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #123
richard_cubano wrote: post #102

Who drives in New York?

Literally millions of people.

That's an interesting statistic. Where did you find it?

I ask because the available statistics I've seen on NYC car ownership and daily usage would make me wonder if there are even 1 million cars operated on NYC streets per day.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#166

Post by recursive »

bane wrote: post #108
recursive wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right? Yes, but they were also built for bicycles. > for every driver (who are actually entitled to be on the road in their cars) Yes, they are so entitled, but so are bicyclists. Motorists are also responsible for other motorists safety. > And then you've decided to inconvenience every single one of them When you drive a car, you do this also. I'm assuming you…

> You've deliberately designed this hobby to be a jerk. Some bicyclists that are jerks also, but mostly they seem to be as jerky as the population at large. Don't make fun of my hobby! Tack fields were made for tack throwing, bikes should get off the trail if they don't want flat tires. So long as I'm left in piece to throw my tacks on the tack field I won't be a jerk. It's all these bike riders running over my tacks…

> It hurts to see an equivalent situation tossed back at you doesn't it.

No, what's hurting my brain is how someone could think that's an equivalent situation.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#167

Post by recursive »

bane wrote: post #143
penrod wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right?" Unless you're referring only to freeways, that's a nice bit of revisionism. Especially in any city older than 100 years, the streets were built to carry trolleys, horses, carriages, omnibuses, and a variety of vehicles just as slow as bicycles. And cycles continue to be legal to ride on those roads. So you're managing to be both historically and legally…

I don't live in a city, and very little development where I live is older than 20 years old. While cycles are legal on the roads, keeping with traffic is also a legal requirement in every state in the U.S. for any person on the road. But because bikes, they don't get ticketed and prosecuted for impeding the flow of traffic.

> keeping with traffic is also a legal requirement in every state in the U.S.

Keeping up with traffic? Do you have a source for that?

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#168

Post by xiaoma »

bane wrote: post #81
msandford wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bikes aren't automobiles no matter how much we debate about it. They shouldn't be sharing the road with cars. While I understand the sentiment you need to understand that cyclists are put in a pretty awkward legal situation themselves. They exist in a no-mans-land between pedestrians and vehicles. Sidewalks are often too narrow, too close to blind corners, etc for safety. They're often VERY bumpy. At 2mph a sidewal…

>despite being required to obey all traffic laws however ill-suited they are for pedal powered vehicles. I absolutely agree with this general sentiment. Bikes aren't vehicles and can't perform like a motorized vehicle along virtually any parameter. They shouldn't be regulated like a vehicle and they shouldn't be sharing space with vehicles. They also clearly aren't pedestrians since sharing space between bikes and pe…

You've been hit by numerous bike riders while out jogging or walking on local trails?

This is mind-blowing. As a former distance runner, I've put in 10,000+ miles of running on trails, on sidewalks and on small roads and done so in several countries. In over a decade of that, I was never hit by any cyclist. Even in terms of close calls I can only remember a couple. What kind of trails do you frequent and what the heck are you doing to get hit not once but numerous times? Are you using some kind of headphone that blocks out surrounding sounds?

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#169

Post by bane »

xiaoma wrote: post #168
bane wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>despite being required to obey all traffic laws however ill-suited they are for pedal powered vehicles. I absolutely agree with this general sentiment. Bikes aren't vehicles and can't perform like a motorized vehicle along virtually any parameter. They shouldn't be regulated like a vehicle and they shouldn't be sharing space with vehicles. They also clearly aren't pedestrians since sharing space between bikes and pe…

You've been hit by numerous bike riders while out jogging or walking on local trails? This is mind-blowing. As a former distance runner, I've put in 10,000+ miles of running on trails, on sidewalks and on small roads and done so in several countries. In over a decade of that, I was never hit by any cyclist. Even in terms of close calls I can only remember a couple. What kind of trails do you frequent and what the hec…

I had a full on collision last year that sprained my elbow so bad I may have to get surgery. I'm waiting to see if it heals up. The bicyclist gave me an earful about blocking the shared-use trail with my walking until I called pulled out my phone to call the cops and then he high tailed it out there. It was literally a vehicular hit and run. And if I need surgery will cost me thousands of dollars and months of physical therapy on top of the medical and physical therapy bills I've already paid.

About a month ago I was clipped by a guy in full kit who then kept on pedaling without checking on me (another hit and run).

My wife was pushed off a trail by another guy in full tour de France kit while out for a walk earlier this summer.

I've probably been hit or clipped or pushed a half dozen times since I moved into my neighborhood. I could go on.

Bike riders around here are really serious about their hobby and are generally assholes to anybody who gets in their way.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#170

Post by reverius42 »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #123
richard_cubano wrote: post #102

Who drives in New York?

Literally millions of people.

Might not be literally, if you're only counting Manhattan (and depending on the time frame). I would venture to guess it might be in the hundreds of thousands per day in Manhattan. Only 332,000 commuters (I assume this is per day) commute to Manhattan by car: http://wagner.nyu.edu/files/rudincenter/ManhattanCommuting.p..., and I would venture to guess an even smaller number commute within Manhattan by car.

But counting all five boroughs, I am sure it is literally millions per day. Car ownership/use/commuting rates are much higher outside of Manhattan.

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