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Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

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Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#131

Post by DannyBee »

mikeash wrote: post #66
mindslight wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The police tend to look at cyclists the way you do, and many times don't find fault with drivers even if cyclists are KILLED much less injured or have their bikes destroyed. I mostly drive these days, but I'm no friend of cars in general or police for that matter. However it's important to keep in mind that injustices occur both ways, and forming blanket statements is a great way to end up just talking past one ano…

The difference is that drivers are killing cyclists without consequences, while cyclists aren't killing drivers, because it's not physically possible.

So, cyclists can't physically cause road accidents that kill drivers? Interesting (and false :P)

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#132

Post by soperj »

bane wrote: post #28
shiftpgdn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cyclist is just a brief inconvenience. It's the same as a school bus or slow driver in a lane requiring you to go around. Every bike on the road is one less car causing traffic. It's crazy to want infrastructure for JUST cyclists when the road is a perfectly good way to travel.

The road is not a perfectly good place for bikes to travel. It's like saying the conveyor belt in an automated slaughter house is a good place to dance because it's flat and doesn't move too fast or that pedestrians should just walk down the middle of the road because it's not a bad walking surface. The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact…

At this point in time, the road is the only good place for a bike to travel.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#133

Post by endzone »

turar wrote: post #78
dllthomas wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you located? In Oakland, I certainly see some bicyclists break the rules, but I probably see more abiding by them. (And I see cars and pedestrians break rules, as well...)

Edmonton, Alberta. I live in a central/downtown location, where most streets are quiet 2-lanes. And like I said, I have never seen a cyclist actually stop at a stop sign. Most don't even slow down -- just a quick check to make sure they're not going to get killed, and blow right past.

it's one of the benefits of cycling. you could do the same if you weren't stuck in a big metal box. deal with it

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#134

Post by [deleted] »

bane wrote: post #108
recursive wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right? Yes, but they were also built for bicycles. > for every driver (who are actually entitled to be on the road in their cars) Yes, they are so entitled, but so are bicyclists. Motorists are also responsible for other motorists safety. > And then you've decided to inconvenience every single one of them When you drive a car, you do this also. I'm assuming you…

> You've deliberately designed this hobby to be a jerk. Some bicyclists that are jerks also, but mostly they seem to be as jerky as the population at large. Don't make fun of my hobby! Tack fields were made for tack throwing, bikes should get off the trail if they don't want flat tires. So long as I'm left in piece to throw my tacks on the tack field I won't be a jerk. It's all these bike riders running over my tacks…

[deleted]

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#135

Post by 7952 »

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #38
shiftpgdn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cyclist is just a brief inconvenience. It's the same as a school bus or slow driver in a lane requiring you to go around. Every bike on the road is one less car causing traffic. It's crazy to want infrastructure for JUST cyclists when the road is a perfectly good way to travel.

Sorry, but John Forester was wrong - not about the mechanics of vehicular cycling, but the psychology. I'm a year-round, go-anywhere cyclist who rides in mixed traffic on side streets and major arterials alike, and I understand that this puts me in an extreme minority: more than 99% of people simply will not ride a bike unless they have a safe-looking, physically protected space in which to do it. North America spent…

I am amazed how some people think that with more facilities everyone will start cycling. It is fun but also quite impractical and sometimes very uncomfortable. It is only really feasible for most people if they live close to their work. Cars make people live much further.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#136

Post by bane »

slykat wrote: post #99
bane wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>despite being required to obey all traffic laws however ill-suited they are for pedal powered vehicles. I absolutely agree with this general sentiment. Bikes aren't vehicles and can't perform like a motorized vehicle along virtually any parameter. They shouldn't be regulated like a vehicle and they shouldn't be sharing space with vehicles. They also clearly aren't pedestrians since sharing space between bikes and pe…

I don't understand this perspective that much. Have you seen how road traffic works internationally, specifically Europe? There are many examples where significant bike traffic can safely share the road with cars. The Netherlands is one of the best examples here. The issue is that: 1) Road design - many/most cities do not have adequate road engineering to deal with bikes 2) Driver training - Road drivers in the US ar…

Well, up top, I specifically endorsed the protected bike lanes as a good idea. I'm not sure if that counts as "separate" or not, but I'm on board with the idea.

I've spent months all over Europe, and in general, in cities cars are a liability, bikes work much better. In the countryside, the motorways I've been on are basically deathtraps for bikes and I've never seen one on them (likely due to it being illegal or some such but I wouldn't know).

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#137

Post by endzone »

bane wrote: post #22
lotsofmangos wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I get my hackles raised every time I see one on the roads. Bikes aren't automobiles no matter how much we debate about it. They shouldn't be sharing the road with cars." Horses must really piss you off then.

People around where I live are smart enough to keep their horses off of the roads and onto horse trails (or in a trailer when they're transporting them). And despite having hundreds of miles of dedicated bike trails I still get stuck behind some guy in full bike kit going 15 mph in the middle an undivided 2 lane 45 with double yellow at least once a week. Being a 15-20 minutes late because he couldn't be bothered to…

who knew programmers were such a busy lot that desperately need to get to their next location that 15 seconds faster. cyclists have a legal right to be on the road, so you need to learn to deal with it. as it stands, it doesn't sound like you should be allowed behind the wheel at all.

also, maybe you should try cycling just to see what the buzz is, though one suspects you might find that difficult for a number of reasons

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#138

Post by gph »

everyone wrote: post #76
sxcurry wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree - bikes should not be sharing the road with angry entitled nasty car drivers. Solution - get rid of the cars. Seriously. Make all traffic lanes in city cores bikes only, and make public transit free for everyone. Have dedicated hours at night when delivery vehicles can use the roads. BTW, I drive and bike and would be willing to give up a lot of the convenience of using my vehicle if these measures co…

In civilised countries (eg. Germany, Netherlands) cars are not allowed in the city centre. because of congestion, pollution, danger of death.

Ah yes, civilization is based solely on mode of transportation. You should become an anthropologist with such great insight.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#139

Post by commandar »

Pxtl wrote: post #41
bane wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The road is not a perfectly good place for bikes to travel. It's like saying the conveyor belt in an automated slaughter house is a good place to dance because it's flat and doesn't move too fast or that pedestrians should just walk down the middle of the road because it's not a bad walking surface. The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact…

> The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact with because they are unprotected regardless of the circumstances of the contact. I didn't ask them to get on the road with me, but I'll sure as hell be held responsible for their decision if something happens. If there were only cyclists on the road, the worst accident would be a few broken bones…

>Try it. You might be surprised that these bike lanes have dead ends or obstacles or just astonishingly crappy terrain.

So much this. We have some fantastic bike trails in my area, but one of the primary arteries just suddenly ends about two miles from the downtown core. The official, city-endorsed route the rest of the way runs on normal surface streets.

Coincidentally, the closest I've come to being involved in a serious accident on my bike was through that section when some jackass behind me decided I shouldn't be on the road and tried to force me into a gutter. The kicker being I had just pushed off from a red light and was actually moving faster than the car in the left lane beside me at that point.

Sometimes bikes don't have any choice but to be on the road, and sometimes they're even told to by the local government.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#140

Post by sedachv »

turar wrote: post #58
bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

As a motorist who sees cyclists daily, I have yet to see a cyclist obey a stop sign. I see blatant disregard for stop signs every single day. Same thing for red lights -- I see cyclists routinely disregard red lights, unless crossing a busy road, where disregarding a red light will certainly get them killed.

Stop-as-yield for cyclists is a safe riding technique and is a law in Idaho: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop
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