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Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

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Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#91

Post by arjunnarayan »

bullfight wrote: post #5

Protected Bike lanes are great and hopefully we start getting Protected Intersections to go with them. This site has a great video which describes the protected intersection. Having traversed them quite a bit as a cyclist, motorist, and pedestrian, they are delight to use. http://www.protectedintersection.com/

This site is brilliant, and thank you for that link. I followed some of the citations. The video on the site makes it seem like it's an experimental idea, but to be clear, here is this dutch video showing that exact design in use - today - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA

I can only dream of living in a place where I could bike with such safety. I regularly get honked at/shouted at in Philadelphia --- for biking in bike lanes, because, apparently, drivers in Philly believe that it is their sovereign right to drive in green painted bike lanes when they wish to turn right. Maybe I should revise my "move to Canada" life plan, and make it "move to Amsterdam".

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#92

Post by TulliusCicero »

bane wrote: post #28
shiftpgdn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cyclist is just a brief inconvenience. It's the same as a school bus or slow driver in a lane requiring you to go around. Every bike on the road is one less car causing traffic. It's crazy to want infrastructure for JUST cyclists when the road is a perfectly good way to travel.

The road is not a perfectly good place for bikes to travel. It's like saying the conveyor belt in an automated slaughter house is a good place to dance because it's flat and doesn't move too fast or that pedestrians should just walk down the middle of the road because it's not a bad walking surface. The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact…

Car infrastructure is WAYYYYYY more expensive than bike infrastructure, dude. Even though as a percentage of their funding, more of car infra is paid for by the users, the absolute costs are so enormous that it doesn't matter.

Drivers don't subsidize cyclists, it's the other way around.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#93

Post by brlewis »

turar wrote: post #58
bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

As a motorist who sees cyclists daily, I have yet to see a cyclist obey a stop sign. I see blatant disregard for stop signs every single day. Same thing for red lights -- I see cyclists routinely disregard red lights, unless crossing a busy road, where disregarding a red light will certainly get them killed.

I see the same thing you see re. red lights. I don't see it as much with stop signs. The typical car I see has a higher minimum speed when going through a stop sign than the typical bicycle I see.

U.S. law already varies what you can do at a red light based on the maneuverability of the vehicle (buses can't do right-on-red). Maybe at some point we'll see variations specifically for bicycles.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#94

Post by jrockway »

nether wrote: post #45
Pxtl wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My list of pet peeves As a cyclist: motorists As a motorist: cyclists And MSBuild. But yeah, studies have found that when it comes to cyclists, there are three categories: Die-hard fearless ninjas that would bike through an active firefight, bike-haters that would never bike in a million years, and casual cyclists who would bike if they felt it were safe. Protected bike lanes are they key to getting #3 on the road.

> Die-hard fearless ninjas that would bike through an active firefight, bike-haters that would never bike in a million years, and casual cyclists who would bike if they felt it were safe. And casual cyclists who are fearless/clueless. I'm talking the about the flip-flop wearing soccer moms pedaling their beach cruisers without helmet or lights down the PCH at night. Truly nuts.

They should get lights. You should slow down according to the conditions.

The speed limit is the absolute maximum which you must never exceed. It isn't an SLA.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#95

Post by fidlefodl »

everyone wrote: post #68
fidlefodl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see more people driving break the law every day while driving then I've ever seen bikers do in my entire life. People are jerks regardless of what they use to commute with. I don't think he (or many) would claim otherwise. The issue isn't the people who ride bikes, but rather the mode they choose to travel with and the impact it has on your drive. Bikers cause all sorts of added danger to both themselves, and you…

Various car related taxes and levies dont even begin to finanace the cost of road building and maintainance. Most of that comes from VAT and income tax.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. Are you replying to the wrong topic?

I wasn't speaking anything about taxes, just personal opinion on the danger of car-v-biker/pedestrian accidents.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#96

Post by jrockway »

dominotw wrote: post #3

Having 2 of my coworkers killed this year on their bike( both by drunk drivers), I wont venture out on a bike until all my path is a completely protected from cars.

I almost got hit by a drunk driver in Chicago too. Incidentally, this happened right in front of a cop and I don't think that guy is driving anymore.

There seem to be a lot more drunk drivers in Chicago than in New York. Weird.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#97

Post by kaonashi »

bane wrote: post #28
shiftpgdn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cyclist is just a brief inconvenience. It's the same as a school bus or slow driver in a lane requiring you to go around. Every bike on the road is one less car causing traffic. It's crazy to want infrastructure for JUST cyclists when the road is a perfectly good way to travel.

The road is not a perfectly good place for bikes to travel. It's like saying the conveyor belt in an automated slaughter house is a good place to dance because it's flat and doesn't move too fast or that pedestrians should just walk down the middle of the road because it's not a bad walking surface. The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact…

Maybe you can slow the fuck down and stop acting so entitled, then you won't have near as many troubles.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#98

Post by seanflyon »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #82
keepper wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except I pay for the roads.. you know.. registration, taxes on gas, taxes on purchase of the car, etc etc... But hey, you're welcome to pay a little for the roads too ;)

Cars also inflict many externalities onto others that other forms of transportation do not (pollution, increased travel distance, injuries and deaths, etc.), and yet drivers seem less keen on paying extra to compensate for those costs.

And wear and tear on the road is approximately proportional to weight and speed so bikes make almost no contribution to road wear, which is the primary cost of our road system.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#99

Post by slykat »

bane wrote: post #81
msandford wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bikes aren't automobiles no matter how much we debate about it. They shouldn't be sharing the road with cars. While I understand the sentiment you need to understand that cyclists are put in a pretty awkward legal situation themselves. They exist in a no-mans-land between pedestrians and vehicles. Sidewalks are often too narrow, too close to blind corners, etc for safety. They're often VERY bumpy. At 2mph a sidewal…

>despite being required to obey all traffic laws however ill-suited they are for pedal powered vehicles. I absolutely agree with this general sentiment. Bikes aren't vehicles and can't perform like a motorized vehicle along virtually any parameter. They shouldn't be regulated like a vehicle and they shouldn't be sharing space with vehicles. They also clearly aren't pedestrians since sharing space between bikes and pe…

I don't understand this perspective that much. Have you seen how road traffic works internationally, specifically Europe? There are many examples where significant bike traffic can safely share the road with cars. The Netherlands is one of the best examples here.

The issue is that: 1) Road design - many/most cities do not have adequate road engineering to deal with bikes 2) Driver training - Road drivers in the US aren't trained to deal with non-car traffic 3) Weak Bike traffic law enforcement - I don't think that bike negligence is a key cause of accidents but I do agree that police enforcement of traffic laws on cyclists is lax.

So I disagree with the notion that bike traffic needs to have a separate roadway from urban traffic. I think there are plenty of good examples where a sharing system works.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#100

Post by kaonashi »

bane wrote: post #22
lotsofmangos wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I get my hackles raised every time I see one on the roads. Bikes aren't automobiles no matter how much we debate about it. They shouldn't be sharing the road with cars." Horses must really piss you off then.

People around where I live are smart enough to keep their horses off of the roads and onto horse trails (or in a trailer when they're transporting them). And despite having hundreds of miles of dedicated bike trails I still get stuck behind some guy in full bike kit going 15 mph in the middle an undivided 2 lane 45 with double yellow at least once a week. Being a 15-20 minutes late because he couldn't be bothered to…

Wow, that must be a frustrating 15 seconds.
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