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Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

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Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#151

Post by osconfused »

fidlefodl wrote: post #122
mjmahone17 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you should be in favor of increasing biking infrastructure so that you're much less likely to make a mistake involving a bicyclist. But all the things you've said are equally true about pedestrians, which is a more dangerous, per-mile-travelled, mode of transportation than biking. And bike lanes in NY make pedestrians safer, too. As a driver, it is your responsibility to manage a two-thousand-pound weapon respon…

> Then you should be in favor of increasing biking infrastructure so that you're much less likely to make a mistake involving a bicyclist. Of course i am. Not sure what made anyone think i'm not in favor of it. Guess opinions are bad-form around this place :P > As a driver, it is your responsibility to manage a two-thousand-pound weapon responsibly. As you have the most power to cause harm, you also have the most res…

America is the only place in the world where jaywalking is a crime. The notion there is a correct route between two points is rather bizarre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#152

Post by osconfused »

7952 wrote: post #135
RyanMcGreal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but John Forester was wrong - not about the mechanics of vehicular cycling, but the psychology. I'm a year-round, go-anywhere cyclist who rides in mixed traffic on side streets and major arterials alike, and I understand that this puts me in an extreme minority: more than 99% of people simply will not ride a bike unless they have a safe-looking, physically protected space in which to do it. North America spent…

I am amazed how some people think that with more facilities everyone will start cycling. It is fun but also quite impractical and sometimes very uncomfortable. It is only really feasible for most people if they live close to their work. Cars make people live much further.

Perhaps the solution is to live closer to where you work.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#153

Post by iak8god »

bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

> Bikes aren't automobiles no matter how much we debate about it. They shouldn't be sharing the road with cars.

I think you're confusing roads with highways. A highway is a place that cars goes and bikes can't go. A bike path is a place that bikes go and cars can't go. Roads are for cars and bikes and for people to live on and near and cross on foot regularly. Imagine a cyclist saying "Cars don't operate at human-scale speeds no matter how much we debate about it. They shouldn't be sharing the road with bikes and people." See how car-centric the debate is, that such a statement will be immediately dismissed.

> Bikes shouldn't be sharing the road with cars, they should have their own designated travel areas.

Everyone agrees that bikes should have their own designated areas, and cyclists especially would like nothing more than to see designated bike lanes and paths everywhere. Where those are absent, which is nearly everywhere even in urban centers in the US, traffic laws and infrastructure should be designed to accommodate all different types of road users, and preferably without killing as many of them as are currently killed each year.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#154

Post by [deleted] »

iak8god wrote: post #153
bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

> Bikes aren't automobiles no matter how much we debate about it. They shouldn't be sharing the road with cars. I think you're confusing roads with highways . A highway is a place that cars goes and bikes can't go. A bike path is a place that bikes go and cars can't go. Roads are for cars and bikes and for people to live on and near and cross on foot regularly. Imagine a cyclist saying "Cars don't operate at human-sc…

[deleted]

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#155

Post by bstrand »

bane wrote: post #28
shiftpgdn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cyclist is just a brief inconvenience. It's the same as a school bus or slow driver in a lane requiring you to go around. Every bike on the road is one less car causing traffic. It's crazy to want infrastructure for JUST cyclists when the road is a perfectly good way to travel.

The road is not a perfectly good place for bikes to travel. It's like saying the conveyor belt in an automated slaughter house is a good place to dance because it's flat and doesn't move too fast or that pedestrians should just walk down the middle of the road because it's not a bad walking surface. The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact…

Respectfully, you seem a bit unhinged over this.

How, exactly, are you harmed by having to share the road safely with non-motor vehicles? Your stated concern over protection applies equally to motorcyclists, yet you seem to have no problem with them.

Your real concern seems to a presumption that you would get to work faster if it weren't for bicyclists. This is very unlikely in reality, and certainly no more than a couple minutes in the worst case. A belief that your right to get to work 2 minutes faster trumps other citizens' entitlement to use and enjoy public rights of way safely is somewhat sociopathic.

I can relate, though. This is what car commuting does to a lot of people. It's dog-eat-dog and me-first out there, with few norms of or need for civility. I've been there. It eats away at you progressively and makes life objectively worse. Explore your options for transit or ride-sharing or find a job you can walk, bike or take transit to. It really makes a huge difference in quality of life.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#156

Post by reitanqild »

iak8god wrote: post #147
keepper wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except I pay for the roads.. you know.. registration, taxes on gas, taxes on purchase of the car, etc etc... But hey, you're welcome to pay a little for the roads too ;)

I wish I thought you were kidding, but many people seem to actually believe that these things are enough to pay for the construction and maintenance of roads. Not so. Much of the cost comes out of general taxes, which everyone pays. When you consider that cyclists contribute basically zero wear and tear to the roads, it starts to look like they're subsidizing your lifestyle. That's ignoring externalities like reduced…

Around here car taxes, road taxes, "environmental taxes" on fuel etc adds up to a whole lot more than the combined price of road maintenance and so on. Also none of it is earmarked for environmental purposes.

Point is: While I'm mostly happy with the tax levels a little honesty would be appreciated.

Edit: Why the downvotes? (BTW: I live in Norway ATM, go read up on Norwegian taxes if you don't trust me.)

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#157

Post by [deleted] »

bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

[deleted]

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#158

Post by schwap »

osconfused wrote: post #151
fidlefodl wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then you should be in favor of increasing biking infrastructure so that you're much less likely to make a mistake involving a bicyclist. Of course i am. Not sure what made anyone think i'm not in favor of it. Guess opinions are bad-form around this place :P > As a driver, it is your responsibility to manage a two-thousand-pound weapon responsibly. As you have the most power to cause harm, you also have the most res…

America is the only place in the world where jaywalking is a crime. The notion there is a correct route between two points is rather bizarre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking

That article contradicts you, i.e.

> Poland

> Jay-walking is an offense. One may cross only at recognized crossing points if there is one within 100m. If caught by the police, the typical punishment is a > fine.[citation needed] The same applies to crossing at a red light.

> Kosovo

> It is illegal to cross the road where there are no proper pedestrian signals or signs, resulting in fines of up to 20 Euros.

Furthermore, just because jaywalking itself is not illegal does not imply that pedestrians receive right of way to cross anywhere.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#159

Post by [deleted] »

brnstz wrote: post #86
bane wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right? Would you walk in the middle of the road? No, because that's idiotic and stupid. But sit on a few pounds of rubber and tubed aluminum, travel only slightly faster than the same moronic pedestrian and now it's a smart commuting idea? You've chosen to go out and share the roads that were built for cars and decided for every driver (who are actually entitled…

Most roads in the world were not originally built for cars: http://www.citylab.com/commute/2012/04/invention-jaywalking/...

[deleted]

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#160

Post by brnstz »

bane wrote: post #129
brnstz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most roads in the world were not originally built for cars: http://www.citylab.com/commute/2012/04/invention-jaywalking/...

Good thing I don't live in those places then. But I do live in a place where the roads were built for cars. And separate travel passages were built for bikes. Yet bikes are all over the roads. Can I take my car on the bike trails?

Where do you live? I am genuinely curious. This is a local issue, and you are speaking in global platitudes. If no one near you wants to bike, fine. Make everything an interstate. But if there are bikes all around... it appears someone near you does want to bike.

I doubt the bike trails near you are even a minimally spanning tree of every place a person needs to go.

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