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Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

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Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#141

Post by bane »

DanBC wrote: post #117
bane wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can absolutely guarantee you that not a single road within 10 miles of my home was built for a horse or carriage and maybe 3% have history back to pre-auto time periods. They were built specifically for automobiles travelling at speed.

Wait, you have special roads? Dofferet from all those other roads? But not so special that bicycles were forbidden from using them? Not like all the roads that bicycles are forbidden from using? Read the fucking law. You are wrong. Here's California's bit of law grantin cyclists the same rigts and responsibilities as other road users: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_law_in_California > 21200. (a) Every person ri…

Why don't you read the fucking law?

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22400.htm

No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law.

http://www.carinsurance.com/Articles/driving-too-slow-ticket...

That's right. Every state has a law on the books that says something along the lines of: "A person shall not drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed so as to impede or block the normal and reasonable forward movement of traffic."

But does anyone ever actually get pulled over and ticketed? Absolutely -- and the ticket counts the same as any other violation against your driver's license and car insurance.

Let me know when bikes can travel at speed with the flow of traffic and I'll retract every unkind thing I've ever said about bicyclists.

>Wait, you have special roads? Dofferet from all those other roads? But not so special that bicycles were forbidden from using them? Not like all the roads that bicycles are forbidden from using?

Oh, so you've moved the goalpost from "built for bikes" to "bikes are permitted". Okay, I can play that game if you want.

Read the law above and let me know the last time you saw a bike getting a ticket for driving too slow and blocking traffic. Because that nonsense happens around where I live pretty much every day and I'm caught in it at least once a week. Yet, I've never once seen a cop pull over a bicyclist and issue a ticket for impeding the flow of traffic.

I will happily share the road with any non-impeding mode of transport anybody chooses to use. But once you start impeding the flow of traffic and then getting belligerent because people have the indignity to complain about it, well fuck you, I have zero patience for that.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#142

Post by soperj »

turar wrote: post #110
jrockway wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a cyclist who sees motorists daily, I have yet to see a motorist obey a stop sign. When I'm stopped, I have to wave cars through when it's their turn to go because they don't understand how stop signs work. (Or assume I'm not really stopped, more likely. Stop signs are a disaster.)

By that do you mean they don't stop, or that they stop for too long to let you through, thinking that you're not going stop at all? (Assuming it's a 4-way stop). If latter, then I could be that motorist as well -- I will naturally assume that cyclists will NOT stop at stop signs (since I have never seen them do so), so I would let them through preventively.

Stop being that person please! Just follow the rules of the road.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#143

Post by bane »

penrod wrote: post #109
bane wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right? Would you walk in the middle of the road? No, because that's idiotic and stupid. But sit on a few pounds of rubber and tubed aluminum, travel only slightly faster than the same moronic pedestrian and now it's a smart commuting idea? You've chosen to go out and share the roads that were built for cars and decided for every driver (who are actually entitled…

"Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right?" Unless you're referring only to freeways, that's a nice bit of revisionism. Especially in any city older than 100 years, the streets were built to carry trolleys, horses, carriages, omnibuses, and a variety of vehicles just as slow as bicycles. And cycles continue to be legal to ride on those roads. So you're managing to be both historically and legally…

I don't live in a city, and very little development where I live is older than 20 years old.

While cycles are legal on the roads, keeping with traffic is also a legal requirement in every state in the U.S. for any person on the road. But because bikes, they don't get ticketed and prosecuted for impeding the flow of traffic.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#144

Post by nknighthb »

bane wrote: post #108
recursive wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right? Yes, but they were also built for bicycles. > for every driver (who are actually entitled to be on the road in their cars) Yes, they are so entitled, but so are bicyclists. Motorists are also responsible for other motorists safety. > And then you've decided to inconvenience every single one of them When you drive a car, you do this also. I'm assuming you…

> You've deliberately designed this hobby to be a jerk. Some bicyclists that are jerks also, but mostly they seem to be as jerky as the population at large. Don't make fun of my hobby! Tack fields were made for tack throwing, bikes should get off the trail if they don't want flat tires. So long as I'm left in piece to throw my tacks on the tack field I won't be a jerk. It's all these bike riders running over my tacks…

I cannot fathom the thought process that leads you to conclude that being inconvenienced by someone having equal rights to yourself is the same as committing an act of violence.

I don't think you should be permitted in public unsupervised, much less permitted to drive a car.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#145

Post by bullfight »

arjunnarayan wrote: post #91
bullfight wrote: post #5

Protected Bike lanes are great and hopefully we start getting Protected Intersections to go with them. This site has a great video which describes the protected intersection. Having traversed them quite a bit as a cyclist, motorist, and pedestrian, they are delight to use. http://www.protectedintersection.com/

This site is brilliant, and thank you for that link. I followed some of the citations. The video on the site makes it seem like it's an experimental idea, but to be clear, here is this dutch video showing that exact design in use - today - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA I can only dream of living in a place where I could bike with such safety. I regularly get honked at/shouted at in Philadelphia --- for…

This design radically reorients your attention to that which is in front of you thereby significantly reducing the chance that you will miss something or "not see" that ped/cyclist, etc.

In many intersections a big part of this includes clearly marking whom has the right of the way through an intersection negating the need for signals which leads to far less intersection congestion.

* As a pedestrian the ease of crossing at intersection is unmatched, no more walking halfway into the intersection to see around parked cars.

* As a cyclist it fundamentally transforms the experience. Every ride can be taken at ease and in comfort. No more fighting for your life.

* As a motorist you worry much less about hitting a cyclist or pedestrian because they are always in front of you where you can see them. NO more straining to check every blind spot 3 times before a turn.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#146

Post by soperj »

true_religion wrote: post #121
jrockway wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay taxes on wars, but would be happy to not have the war if I didn't have to pay those taxes. Sadly, that's not how taxes work. Each tax isn't "for" something, they all go to into the budget and are used to buy stuff. Toll roads might be a fair example. Those are mostly closed to bicycles.

Often gas taxes/vehicle property tax is tagged by the state to be dedicated solely towards road development and upkeep. If there's ever a shortfall, they stop maintaining lesser used roads because the rest of the budget has already been decided. This is despite the fact that it takes more than gas + property tax to fund the highway system. Thinking about that... I get your point, non-drivers are funding the roadway s…

Not to mention bikers inflict 0 wear & tear on the road.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#147

Post by iak8god »

keepper wrote: post #62
soperj wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of those bikers who hates sharing roadways with cars. It's not that I have to share, but between taking up so much of the road, pure safety concerns for bikers(since automobile drivers win every single colition) and generally shitty entitled attitude lots of car drivers seem to have (most likely because there are more of them so they think they own the road) I get my hackles raised every time I see one on the…

Except I pay for the roads.. you know.. registration, taxes on gas, taxes on purchase of the car, etc etc... But hey, you're welcome to pay a little for the roads too ;)

I wish I thought you were kidding, but many people seem to actually believe that these things are enough to pay for the construction and maintenance of roads. Not so. Much of the cost comes out of general taxes, which everyone pays. When you consider that cyclists contribute basically zero wear and tear to the roads, it starts to look like they're subsidizing your lifestyle.

That's ignoring externalities like reduced traffic and pollution, and reduced demand for oil.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#148

Post by tbrownaw »

bane wrote: post #13

I'm one of those drivers who hates sharing roadways with bikers. It's not that I have to share, but between slowing traffic down, pure safety concerns for the biker (who I as the automobile driver am responsible for in the case of an accident) and the generally shitty entitled attitude lots of bike riders seem to have (probably earned from dealing with irritated drivers like me) I get my hackles raised every time I s…

Between roads, sidewalks and bike lanes, this provides a designated travel area for everybody regardless of the mode they choose to travel with.

I still have a pair of inline skates somewhere, that I used for transportation around campus when I was at university. That's about half-way between foot speed and bike speed.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#149

Post by Kluny »

iak8god wrote: post #147
keepper wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except I pay for the roads.. you know.. registration, taxes on gas, taxes on purchase of the car, etc etc... But hey, you're welcome to pay a little for the roads too ;)

I wish I thought you were kidding, but many people seem to actually believe that these things are enough to pay for the construction and maintenance of roads. Not so. Much of the cost comes out of general taxes, which everyone pays. When you consider that cyclists contribute basically zero wear and tear to the roads, it starts to look like they're subsidizing your lifestyle. That's ignoring externalities like reduced…

Plus the fact that most bikers own cars too, they just don't happen to be driving it when you see them.

Re: Bike lanes have sped up car traffic in New York City

#150

Post by conanbatt »

bane wrote: post #141
DanBC wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you have special roads? Dofferet from all those other roads? But not so special that bicycles were forbidden from using them? Not like all the roads that bicycles are forbidden from using? Read the fucking law. You are wrong. Here's California's bit of law grantin cyclists the same rigts and responsibilities as other road users: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_law_in_California > 21200. (a) Every person ri…

Why don't you read the fucking law? https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22400.htm No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law. http://www.carinsurance.com/Articles/driving-too-slow-ticket... That's right. Every state has a law on…

I dont know a lot about the subject, but the previous post says "except those provisions which by their very nature can have no application."

Bike speed runs on human effort, id say a human being going with a bike at car speed is unreasonable. Also there are many very "natural" considerations on bike speeds: bad terrain, just going over a hill, cramps, and all sorts of bodily flaws that make speed limits on bikes unreasonable.

I would never use a bike on a highway though, but there is an undeniable benefit in supporting bikes in any big city, for health, transit, space, economic and environmental issues.

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