Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#31

Post by thrownaway2424 » Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 5:24 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #20

mbesto wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has plenty of competitors. I think you forget that someone typing in a search isn't the customer opening their wallet up to pay for Google. http://www.techdisruptive.com/2013/04/16/breaking-down-the-o...

Not in the search space they don't which is what EU companies have an issue with. It's Google with about 70%, Bing with about 20% and Yahoo with about 10%. The others are basically rounding errors. When Google puts its own products before organic search results then that clearly is monopolistic behaviour i.e. attempting to extend dominance in one sector to another.

What does "organic" mean, though? Does it include unbelieavbly bad alternatives to stock Android facilities, like the Aptoide market mentioned in the article? I mean that site is just a piece of shit. Every click takes minutes to service! Is it really Google's responsibility to direct users to miserable experiences, just because some Eurocrat wants his pals to make more money? That's all this boils down to really: local bureaucrats trying to use sovereign powers to enrich their friends.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#32

Post by adventured » Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 5:25 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #29

rdjik wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Google search is a free service with no lock in and with many other free alternatives still stands. It's also strange that a search engine is a target of such hostility in the continent. No one is being prevented to visit any website or install any app they like. Also the political aspect of this situation shouldn't be so easily dismissed, I don't see how tax or intangible privacy concerns have to do wi…

The hostility comes from Google being the gatekeeper to the internet for most people. And them using that privilege to unfairly promote their products above alternatives. And you must be deluded if you think the privacy concerns aren't a serious concern for Europeans. The US was implicated in hacking the phones of the German Chancellor and Snowden showed the extent of NSA data capture/mining. What do you expect them…

If you're free to use another service at no cost to yourself, then there is no gatekeeper.

If the primary problem (supposed "cost") in switching, is that you have to use an inferior product, then you're proving your position to be wrong to begin with.

Their position is not a privilege, and as such promoting their own products and services with their own service is and should be their right.

Google either owns its property, and has full control over that property, or it does not. If you claim it does not, then you're claiming the right to revoke property rights any time and any place when it's matching with your personal ideology.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#33

Post by lazylizard » Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 5:25 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #29

rdjik wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Google search is a free service with no lock in and with many other free alternatives still stands. It's also strange that a search engine is a target of such hostility in the continent. No one is being prevented to visit any website or install any app they like. Also the political aspect of this situation shouldn't be so easily dismissed, I don't see how tax or intangible privacy concerns have to do wi…

The hostility comes from Google being the gatekeeper to the internet for most people. And them using that privilege to unfairly promote their products above alternatives. And you must be deluded if you think the privacy concerns aren't a serious concern for Europeans. The US was implicated in hacking the phones of the German Chancellor and Snowden showed the extent of NSA data capture/mining. What do you expect them…

if the europeans were bothered enough by boeing to create airbus, why aren't they bothered enough to create their own search engine? the chinese don't seem to have a problem not using google..

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#34

Post by adventured » Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 5:26 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #19

pippy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ridiculous to label Google a monopoly. People have to go out of their way to type in Googles URL, and anyone can type in something different. Yandex and baidu are valid non-US competitors. Quality is the reason why people go back to Google. Compare this to the monopolistic practices of Mircosoft; who still viciously fend competitors from installing their software on OEM devices, amongst other horrible business p…

Google is the default search engine in Safari, Chrome, Firefox on both mobile and web. Nobody is going out of their way to look for or type Google.com. And not sure why on earth you are bringing up Yandex or Baidu which are both country specific engines with very strong ties to their respective governments.

I've never once used Google via a browser search bar.

I go to google.com manually every single time, and have since the 1990s.

I don't go out of my way, you're right about that. I simply type g for google.com and firefox fills in the rest.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#35

Post by adventured » Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 5:29 AM UTC

spindritf wrote: post #10

ghostdiver wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lack of competitors for Google is bad

It is pretty embarassing that we completely rely on Americans for tech. And that's despite larger population and higher density, better Internet connectivity, free higher education in many places... I don't think it's Google's fault though.

Which part of Europe are you referring to?

Most of Europe is not at all like what you're describing.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#36

Post by thrownaway2424 » Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 5:30 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #19

pippy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ridiculous to label Google a monopoly. People have to go out of their way to type in Googles URL, and anyone can type in something different. Yandex and baidu are valid non-US competitors. Quality is the reason why people go back to Google. Compare this to the monopolistic practices of Mircosoft; who still viciously fend competitors from installing their software on OEM devices, amongst other horrible business p…

Google is the default search engine in Safari, Chrome, Firefox on both mobile and web. Nobody is going out of their way to look for or type Google.com. And not sure why on earth you are bringing up Yandex or Baidu which are both country specific engines with very strong ties to their respective governments.

I rebut your naked assertion with anecdata. Once a retailer offered to look up something on her computer for me. She opened up internet explorer, the default browser on her operating system. It loaded Bing. Then she typed "Google" into Bing. Then she clicked the first result. Then she typed her question into Google.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#37

Post by adventured » Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 5:32 AM UTC

ocb wrote: post #28

spindritf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty embarassing that we completely rely on Americans for tech. And that's despite larger population and higher density, better Internet connectivity, free higher education in many places... I don't think it's Google's fault though.

Perhaps the US has stronger entrepreneurial culture? I've seen this discussed before.

This is the correct answer, and that has cultural and economic system roots that date to the very origin of the United States.

The rest of the answer is that the US possesses an integrated, massive, comprehensive economic system. From capital markets, to VC markets, to every major industry, to the top universities on the planet, to a massive existing infrastructure related to science, engineering, programming, internet services, a total ecosystem from top to bottom. No other country on earth can match the total sum, and Europe as a whole is not integrated well at all.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#38

Post by thrownaway2424 » Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 5:35 AM UTC

virmundi wrote: post #22

ars wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a great safety-net available too in most European countries. These two should make for a greater tech culture, at least abstractly. Quite the opposite actually. The better your life if you don't take a risk, the less likely it is that you will take a risk. And because people usually overestimate risk, risks are usually worth it.

I agree with this. I've recently started my own company. My wife has a job which covers our bills. I don't have a fear that we're going to get totally wiped out. As a result I don't focus as much as I should on it. Instead I work around the house or get lost on the Internet on HN or Reddit.

Right! America is great because we really do let our people starve in the streets, so they work harder :-/

Sad if true.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#39

Post by res0nat0r » Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 5:39 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #29

rdjik wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Google search is a free service with no lock in and with many other free alternatives still stands. It's also strange that a search engine is a target of such hostility in the continent. No one is being prevented to visit any website or install any app they like. Also the political aspect of this situation shouldn't be so easily dismissed, I don't see how tax or intangible privacy concerns have to do wi…

The hostility comes from Google being the gatekeeper to the internet for most people. And them using that privilege to unfairly promote their products above alternatives. And you must be deluded if you think the privacy concerns aren't a serious concern for Europeans. The US was implicated in hacking the phones of the German Chancellor and Snowden showed the extent of NSA data capture/mining. What do you expect them…

So google became popular because people have found them to be the most useful. Anyone can switch to a different search engine with a few keystrokes. They haven't forced themselves to become the default browser on anything, nor any quid pro quo I believe.

Yet another comment that seems to hate google since now they are the big guy, and we hate the big guy, since we on HN are the broke little guys. Until of course we become the big guy and IPO.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#40

Post by rdjik » Tue, Sep 09, 2014, 5:48 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #29

rdjik wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Google search is a free service with no lock in and with many other free alternatives still stands. It's also strange that a search engine is a target of such hostility in the continent. No one is being prevented to visit any website or install any app they like. Also the political aspect of this situation shouldn't be so easily dismissed, I don't see how tax or intangible privacy concerns have to do wi…

The hostility comes from Google being the gatekeeper to the internet for most people. And them using that privilege to unfairly promote their products above alternatives. And you must be deluded if you think the privacy concerns aren't a serious concern for Europeans. The US was implicated in hacking the phones of the German Chancellor and Snowden showed the extent of NSA data capture/mining. What do you expect them…

Google isn't the gateway to the Internet not in any physical nor even metaphorical sense, it's Facebook were most folks spend most of their time, also the "promote their products above alternatives" is a loaded statement and accusation, when they show shopping results it's not their appliances they are selling, when show maps it's because it's a geographical query, and so on, and when they just show answers and not links it's because that is how search engines are supposed to work.

The perceived importance of privacy is irrelevant when the question is about competition, when other matters entirely are invoked to pressure or punish them then that is just plain old corruption.