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Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#21

Post by rdjik »

threeseed wrote: post #19
pippy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ridiculous to label Google a monopoly. People have to go out of their way to type in Googles URL, and anyone can type in something different. Yandex and baidu are valid non-US competitors. Quality is the reason why people go back to Google. Compare this to the monopolistic practices of Mircosoft; who still viciously fend competitors from installing their software on OEM devices, amongst other horrible business p…

Google is the default search engine in Safari, Chrome, Firefox on both mobile and web. Nobody is going out of their way to look for or type Google.com. And not sure why on earth you are bringing up Yandex or Baidu which are both country specific engines with very strong ties to their respective governments.

The fact that Google search is a free service with no lock in and with many other free alternatives still stands. It's also strange that a search engine is a target of such hostility in the continent. No one is being prevented to visit any website or install any app they like.

Also the political aspect of this situation shouldn't be so easily dismissed, I don't see how tax or intangible privacy concerns have to do with the competitive question, this whole thing boils down to powerful newspaper publishers which have outsized influence on politicians seeking to punish Google, this is not unlike corrupt third world government behaviour.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#22

Post by virmundi »

ars wrote: post #17
virmundi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why Europe is in such a situation. There seems to be something pathological behind trend. I'm not sure what. I've seen free higher education, or at least heavily subsided education. There is a great safety-net available too in most European countries. These two should make for a greater tech culture, at least abstractly. Now I've worked with Americans and Europeans who had an MS or PhD in CS (full disclos…

> There is a great safety-net available too in most European countries. These two should make for a greater tech culture, at least abstractly. Quite the opposite actually. The better your life if you don't take a risk, the less likely it is that you will take a risk. And because people usually overestimate risk, risks are usually worth it.

I agree with this. I've recently started my own company. My wife has a job which covers our bills. I don't have a fear that we're going to get totally wiped out. As a result I don't focus as much as I should on it. Instead I work around the house or get lost on the Internet on HN or Reddit.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#23

Post by virmundi »

Mithaldu wrote: post #15
virmundi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why Europe is in such a situation. There seems to be something pathological behind trend. I'm not sure what. I've seen free higher education, or at least heavily subsided education. There is a great safety-net available too in most European countries. These two should make for a greater tech culture, at least abstractly. Now I've worked with Americans and Europeans who had an MS or PhD in CS (full disclos…

The difference? 1. The internet was developed in the USA. 2. Language. The first point simply means that whatever was done with the internet, the USA got the first crack at it. In american TV it's common now to tell people two tweet about the show they're watching, with hash tags on screen and whatnot. In germany, europe's technology powerhouse, it's still extremely common for a person to have never even heard of twi…

Why does adding English cost that much? I thought that a good number of European companies have English speaking people in them. They don't have to speak perfect English for a lot of tech. Just enough to label a UI mostly right. Americans will overlook grammatical errors.

Why is the Internet lacking in Germany? Is it because there are few German sites?

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#24

Post by NolF »

threeseed wrote: post #19
pippy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ridiculous to label Google a monopoly. People have to go out of their way to type in Googles URL, and anyone can type in something different. Yandex and baidu are valid non-US competitors. Quality is the reason why people go back to Google. Compare this to the monopolistic practices of Mircosoft; who still viciously fend competitors from installing their software on OEM devices, amongst other horrible business p…

Google is the default search engine in Safari, Chrome, Firefox on both mobile and web. Nobody is going out of their way to look for or type Google.com. And not sure why on earth you are bringing up Yandex or Baidu which are both country specific engines with very strong ties to their respective governments.

Every time I've installed Chrome clean, it has asked me what my default search engine should be o_O

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#25

Post by dunmalg »

virmundi wrote: post #23
Mithaldu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference? 1. The internet was developed in the USA. 2. Language. The first point simply means that whatever was done with the internet, the USA got the first crack at it. In american TV it's common now to tell people two tweet about the show they're watching, with hash tags on screen and whatnot. In germany, europe's technology powerhouse, it's still extremely common for a person to have never even heard of twi…

Why does adding English cost that much? I thought that a good number of European companies have English speaking people in them. They don't have to speak perfect English for a lot of tech. Just enough to label a UI mostly right. Americans will overlook grammatical errors. Why is the Internet lacking in Germany? Is it because there are few German sites?

>Why does adding English cost that much?

Localization in general adds a whole additional dimension of complexity. Every place you would normally just stick a word or phrase between quotes now suddenly has to pull that in from an array or database somewhere.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#26

Post by Mithaldu »

virmundi wrote: post #23
Mithaldu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference? 1. The internet was developed in the USA. 2. Language. The first point simply means that whatever was done with the internet, the USA got the first crack at it. In american TV it's common now to tell people two tweet about the show they're watching, with hash tags on screen and whatnot. In germany, europe's technology powerhouse, it's still extremely common for a person to have never even heard of twi…

Why does adding English cost that much? I thought that a good number of European companies have English speaking people in them. They don't have to speak perfect English for a lot of tech. Just enough to label a UI mostly right. Americans will overlook grammatical errors. Why is the Internet lacking in Germany? Is it because there are few German sites?

Adding english costs, depending on what your site is, roughly a half, to two employees, since, for one, the developers have to implement localization, which is not easy, and everything has to be translated. In most german companies i've worked at people were able to understand written english a little, but were unable to produce fluid english. So you have to hire translators. It might be easier in other countries.

> Americans will overlook grammatical errors.

I'm saying without proper translators you end up with engrish.

> Why is the Internet lacking in Germany? Is it because there are few German sites?

General lack of interest, and smaller set of offers.

Keep in mind that the east half of germany didn't even have a telephone net into most people's houses until 1989, when germany was reunified. As for the content: Just recently it was brought up that in the usa elder people increasingly turn to youtube. An example brought up was a wealth of wood-working videos. Trying to find german wood-working videos on youtube only gives you semi-commercial advertisements for big machines.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#27

Post by virmundi »

virmundi wrote: post #23
Mithaldu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference? 1. The internet was developed in the USA. 2. Language. The first point simply means that whatever was done with the internet, the USA got the first crack at it. In american TV it's common now to tell people two tweet about the show they're watching, with hash tags on screen and whatnot. In germany, europe's technology powerhouse, it's still extremely common for a person to have never even heard of twi…

Why does adding English cost that much? I thought that a good number of European companies have English speaking people in them. They don't have to speak perfect English for a lot of tech. Just enough to label a UI mostly right. Americans will overlook grammatical errors. Why is the Internet lacking in Germany? Is it because there are few German sites?

@dunmalg I guess that I find odd is that, at least for Java, i18n is really the design goal. Most web frameworks provided that ability. Wicket, Spring, etc. JSPs had tags that knew how to fish out content based on local. Android has is built in with English as the default, but with localization being additive. Heck, I'm doing that right now on my Android app.

As for Engrish, why is that bad on a first release. Yes, American's will laugh at it, but I doubt it will be enough to kill something that provide real value. Heck, Americans produce Engrish. That's never stopped us. If a German company tried to get ok English for their service/app/whatever version 1.0, they could take the money and improve for 1.4.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#28

Post by ocb »

spindritf wrote: post #10
ghostdiver wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lack of competitors for Google is bad

It is pretty embarassing that we completely rely on Americans for tech. And that's despite larger population and higher density, better Internet connectivity, free higher education in many places... I don't think it's Google's fault though.

Perhaps the US has stronger entrepreneurial culture? I've seen this discussed before.

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#29

Post by threeseed »

rdjik wrote: post #21
threeseed wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is the default search engine in Safari, Chrome, Firefox on both mobile and web. Nobody is going out of their way to look for or type Google.com. And not sure why on earth you are bringing up Yandex or Baidu which are both country specific engines with very strong ties to their respective governments.

The fact that Google search is a free service with no lock in and with many other free alternatives still stands. It's also strange that a search engine is a target of such hostility in the continent. No one is being prevented to visit any website or install any app they like. Also the political aspect of this situation shouldn't be so easily dismissed, I don't see how tax or intangible privacy concerns have to do wi…

The hostility comes from Google being the gatekeeper to the internet for most people. And them using that privilege to unfairly promote their products above alternatives.

And you must be deluded if you think the privacy concerns aren't a serious concern for Europeans. The US was implicated in hacking the phones of the German Chancellor and Snowden showed the extent of NSA data capture/mining. What do you expect them to do .. put their head in the ground and do nothing ?

Re: Google Is Target of European Backlash on U.S. Tech Dominance

#30

Post by lazylizard »

threeseed wrote: post #19
pippy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ridiculous to label Google a monopoly. People have to go out of their way to type in Googles URL, and anyone can type in something different. Yandex and baidu are valid non-US competitors. Quality is the reason why people go back to Google. Compare this to the monopolistic practices of Mircosoft; who still viciously fend competitors from installing their software on OEM devices, amongst other horrible business p…

Google is the default search engine in Safari, Chrome, Firefox on both mobile and web. Nobody is going out of their way to look for or type Google.com. And not sure why on earth you are bringing up Yandex or Baidu which are both country specific engines with very strong ties to their respective governments.

then demand that browsers don't ship with a default search engine?
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