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Exploding Offers Suck

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Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#91
post #78
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but simply disregarding the time frame seems pretty safe" All depends. Once again you could be right but I could also argue under the theory that "once you make a sale you close and get your ass out of dodge". Because things can and do change. Keep in mind that an open offer not taken can be withdrawn. Or new information can come up which makes it less attractive or gives someone a reason to change their mind. I off…

How would you advise someone to learn how to negotiate and get better at negotiation?

Practice when you have a chance.

Read 'Getting to Yes' and 'Bargaining for Advantage.' Use the principles when making any large purchase or changing jobs.

Most retail cashiers can also give 10% discounts without approval. Find opportunities to negotiate.

Buy things on craigslist and be patient.

If you read the books, you'll also see more everyday situations and compromises as chances to use negotiating skills. There's no reason it needs to be money.

If you're in software you can also read patio11's valuable thoughts: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#92
post #78
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but simply disregarding the time frame seems pretty safe" All depends. Once again you could be right but I could also argue under the theory that "once you make a sale you close and get your ass out of dodge". Because things can and do change. Keep in mind that an open offer not taken can be withdrawn. Or new information can come up which makes it less attractive or gives someone a reason to change their mind. I off…

How would you advise someone to learn how to negotiate and get better at negotiation?

Practice. Lots' of practice. And practice in cases where the outcome doesn't matter even if you have to make up situations to practice on or negotiate for others.

In addition to my own deals which I obviously work on, I also, some time ago, took on negotiating deals for others since it was fun to do. I ended up having enough takers that I started to have to charge for doing that. While the amount I am paid wouldn't make it attractive full time [1] (besides there are no residuals which I like) it still is something I do just to keep my mind active and since I have the flexibility to take chances where the outcome isn't as important. And to me, it's fun. I get a great buzz from having the correct analysis lead to a positive outcome. In some ways it's better than money.

Another thing that is good practice is simply to try and make deals for others that is to put deals together or what I might will call "shoot the gap". I do that all the time. I'll see something that I think could be helpful to 2 different people and without even getting paid for it I will try to convince both of them that they should get together on some business issue. Then when if reply or are negative I will try and overcome the objections to make a deal happen.

Risk always enters into negotiation. If you are willing to lose you can take more chances because you aren't as worried about going bust. If you can't lose (you really need something) you have to be more careful and can't be as reckless.

[1] Because in the end it's more money in my pocket doing things on my own account time wise although there is a great benefit to doing it for others as well I gather more data because there are more situations to work in and around.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#93
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post exemplifies why you don't take legal advice from strangers on the internet.

Is there case law that shows verbal acceptance of contracts are legally binding?

Legally binding (if so) is not the same as something will actually happen. It's an important distinction.

Don't confuse what the laws says can happen with what will happen.

Look people don't need much of a leg to stand on if they want to sue if the pot of gold is big enough. But at least, in my experience, people are usually hard pressed to sue over verbal contracts or for that matter obviously even many written and executed contracts.

Keep in mind that the advice that many lawyers will give you is going to generally steer away from telling you to take chances lest you then go and pin the blame on him when you are the edge case.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of SharkTank where Mark Cuban would make a shot-clock offer and give 30 seconds for someone to accept the offer. Here's the thing. Mark Cuban can walk away from any deal, at anytime and not feel like he is missing out. So, while you are certainly getting the shorter end of the stick with an exploding offer...It's usually coming from a place where the person making the offer has enough leverage to be o…

Also about how many options you have for yourself. You never want to put yourself in a situation where you might get an exploding offer without something else in hand. Unfortunately I didn't follow this advice when recently buying a car.

It's difficult to imagine a situation where it's rational to offer another rational actor an exploding offer to buy a car. Jobs sometimes need to be filled quickly. But when is selling a car today so much worse than selling one tomorrow?

It sounds like the "exploding offer" another scumbag car dealer pressure tactic. Car dealers will do anything, including lying, to prevent you from negotiating efficiently.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#95
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I've offered an exploding offer in the past, it's because I had several candidates: an extremely strong candidate and several strong but somewhat weaker candidates. In general, all of the candidates have a limited timeframe to make a decision, and there's a risk of losing all candidates if I waited for an indefinite time on the strongest candidate. In other words, candidates sometimes also need an answer wit…

>Whenever I've offered an exploding offer in the past, it's because I had several candidates: an extremely strong candidate and several strong but somewhat weaker candidates. If you had several candidates of equal ability, would you still use an exploding offer? Otherwise, it seems to be less about "giving candidates an answer within a certain timeframe" and more about putting pressure on the candidate you really wan…

If you had several candidates of equal ability, would you still use an exploding offer?

I would think you would. If you have 10 candidates but only want to hire 1, you can only issue one offer at a time regardless the fact that all 10 are equally qualified. While the first candidate would love to have all the time in the world to contemplate the offer, the employer and the other 9 candidates who are waiting in line don't want that.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#96

In general, if someone wants me to agree to something "big" immediately, I figure that they don't want me to have time to consider it carefully. If you don't want me to think about something, I figure you know I would probably decide against your offer (if I did think about it).

I agree, but exploding offers tend to explode sometime after "immediately". i.e., the deadline can be enough time to think everything through and do your due diligence. Still an exploding offer.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#97

A dear friend and excellent negotiator told me that when he gets any kind of short-term exploding offer, the first thing he does is verbally reject the deadline. And the second thing he does is ignore the deadline and offer feedback only after it has passed. I've seen him employ this many times in practice and it has always worked out. I don't want to be responsible for anyone losing a deal, but remember: when someon…

> the first thing he does is verbally reject the deadline

Verbally reject the offer or the deadline?

Can you give us some examples?

I understand that it is most likely the deadline, but from the sounds of it the strategy should be a little more complex.

Currently it sounds like:

Someone: We would need an answer in 10 days?

Your friend: I can't reply in 10 day.

--- 12 days later ---

Your friend: The answer is yes.

Someone: We'll give you the money.

The success rate of this exchange seems questionable.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also about how many options you have for yourself. You never want to put yourself in a situation where you might get an exploding offer without something else in hand. Unfortunately I didn't follow this advice when recently buying a car.

It's difficult to imagine a situation where it's rational to offer another rational actor an exploding offer to buy a car. Jobs sometimes need to be filled quickly. But when is selling a car today so much worse than selling one tomorrow? It sounds like the "exploding offer" another scumbag car dealer pressure tactic. Car dealers will do anything, including lying, to prevent you from negotiating efficiently.

You assume it was a dealership. A perfectly legit example of an exploding offer would be a used car with an attractive price where the deal goes to the first person to show up and claim it.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#99
post #71
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A dear friend and excellent negotiator told me that when he gets any kind of short-term exploding offer, the first thing he does" As someone who considers himself an excellent negotiator (and gets paid to do negotiating) [1] I'd really caution someone from employing a technique that someone else uses that you don't have experience with. Negotiating is all nuance it's not engineering or an exact science. Go try and r…

I'd love to hear more about your experience in negotiation. What resources do you recommend? Has this mostly come from experience or elsewhere? If you want to take it off list: dwyer.ed@gmail.com :)

Experience starting quite a long time ago.

And geez there's a boatload of things to take into account and they have to become second nature (like playing a sport or self defense) so you just have to spend time and practice all the time and keep practicing.

I actually keep my own notes on all my thoughts and techniques that pop into my mind.

Here is one as example.

Timing. Timing is important. I take into account not only how quickly someone replies but how quickly I reply or get back to someone. There is a reason and a strategy behind what people do in most, but of course not all cases. Even the time of day they reply and the length of the reply and exactly the words they use as well. Say when you propose something how quickly do they get back to you? All context in different cases means different things.

Also timing as far as when you spring things upon people.

For example I'm currently in the process of getting my bathroom quoted for remodeling. I've settled on a particular vendor that I'm pretty sure I will use. We've been going back and forth on details for probably 6 to 8 weeks. They've given me pricing and I haven't asked or said anything regarding getting a discount. At all. I also haven't asked for any exact details on products they are using. I don't care at this point.

What I will do is most likely bring up a discount at the very end of the process. When they have already spent time on the deal and don't want to lose it. [1] I will also bring up other factors to them (non monetary but convenience for us) at the end. I know they won't be as likely to blow off those concerns after the big investment in time they have made.

[1] After listening to my war stories my ex wife used the same technique against me when we were ready to sign our divorce papers. At the very end as we sat there the deal all done and papers ready to sign she said "I'll only sign if you also pay for my trip to XYZ". While I could have walked she knew me well enough to know that I wouldn't and actually I was kind of proud that she had listened and learned. Which is another point in order to negotiate you have to know as much as you can about the motivations of the other side as possible. (So research is important).

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