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Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

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Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#51

Post by chvid »

I am reading thru this and it is a good, recommended read however I am getting slightly annoyed with academic attitude of the author. Like batman in the cartoon I want to slap him but not for "sloppy market research". But for using the term "market research" at all.

(This is essientially the first and maybe the second point reiterated.)

Suppose you were a cook with your own restaurant. How do you figure out what works and what doesn't?

Do you go and do market research, have questionaries, focus groups, do statistics, user-driven cooking or whatever?

Surely not. You create dishes, put the new ones in the menu as today's special. Then you figure out whether people like them or not.

How do you figure that out? Do you ask them? Of course you don't because you know that if you ask "did you enjoy your dinner?" People will just be polite and tell you "yes - it was excellent - thank you very much". No. You look at whether they finished their plates or send it back half-full. Whether you get any sales. Whether they come back for more.

Even my mother knows this. When she cooks cookies, she doesn't ask me "do you like them?" Because she knows I will just say "yes - they are the best cookies in the world, mum". She asks me if I want another. And if I stay the night, she looks at whether I get up at 3 am to roam the kitchen for more of them cookies.

This is basic human behaviour but somehow lost in the academics of business administration.

The second thing is that I get the feeling that the author simply haven't explored the huge "product space" between takeaway and ready-to-cook prepackaged ingredients with a recipe at all. How about - this is essientially takeway but you have to heat the curry in your microwave and then add the fresh coriander yourself - the upshot is that it will last a week in your fridge should you not eat it all tonight. Or maybe: It is protein shakes and vitamin pills for a week - no problem - it stays "fresh" for 5 years. Or: It is the latest Jamie Oliver book with ingredients to get you started on the first three dishes.

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#52

Post by NhanH »

maxbrown wrote: post #36
personZ wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their observation isn't remotely an ad hominem: They are specifically criticizing the message, not the speaker. And their point is valid: There is a wide "startup" belief that you needn't know the market or domain, the customers, etc. You just need to find a domain name and make a web page and customers will come and somehow a business will fall together. Only the overwhelming odds are that it will face likely failur…

Many of the start-up lessons here are those preached by Eric Reis, Steve Blank, and others. I don't think this is a broad treatise on how food start-ups won't work. Also: ..."things no responsible person would ever not know before even considering raising money." ... ...classic marketing grad trying to do startup things... ...over-exuberant and irresponsible entrepreneurs... not sure how you don't see this as ad homi…

Ad hominem is an attack that discredit the argument by trying to discredit the person writing the message (ie. "You didn't success why should I listen to you"), mostly by attacking the credentials of the person.

An attack on BOTH the writer and the argument, as unnecessary critical or negative as it could be, is not an ad hominem attack, and by no mean make the criticism an invalid one. Especially if the criticism of the writer comes because of the writing (ie. "from what you've done, it seems like you're too inexperienced and naive etc...")

(I'm sorry that this is really off topic ...)

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#53

Post by chandraonline »

idlewords wrote: post #40
maxbrown wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but have a negative reaction to your comment. Yes, similar "lessons learned" are proliferated throughout the startup world, primarily because these are some of the hardest things about building a successful business even if you already know that they're the hardest things . This is clearly just a self-reflective piece, entitled "lessons I learned" not "lessons you should learn". If the rest of us want th…

Don't call things ad hominem that aren't, you dumb jerk.

I see what you did there! Genius.

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#55

Post by chvid »

chvid wrote: post #51

I am reading thru this and it is a good, recommended read however I am getting slightly annoyed with academic attitude of the author. Like batman in the cartoon I want to slap him but not for "sloppy market research". But for using the term "market research" at all. (This is essientially the first and maybe the second point reiterated.) Suppose you were a cook with your own restaurant. How do you figure out what work…

Oh - I forgot the must basic thing that both my mum and the cook does: Tasting and eating their own stuff.

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#58

Post by tptacek »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #49
diziet wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On premise cooking lessons is not something that can scale / can be implemented easy. It also comes with a whole bunch of problems (letting a stranger into your home / kitchen while you are there , etc)

It doesn't have to be at your house. It can be at a dedicated location which does scale.

Doesn't that business already exist, and isn't it called "cooking classes"? Near as I can tell, none of them are drowning in cash. People generally figure out how to cook on their own.

This gets into one of the points the post made: you need to verify that people actually prioritize the problem you want to solve.

Cooking might fall into an uncomfortable crack, in this model, because the people most receptive to the benefits of a home-cooked meal with greater variety and quality ingredients are also disproportionally likely to be DIY cooks.

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#59

Post by tptacek »

personZ wrote: post #35
maxbrown wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but have a negative reaction to your comment. Yes, similar "lessons learned" are proliferated throughout the startup world, primarily because these are some of the hardest things about building a successful business even if you already know that they're the hardest things . This is clearly just a self-reflective piece, entitled "lessons I learned" not "lessons you should learn". If the rest of us want th…

Their observation isn't remotely an ad hominem: They are specifically criticizing the message, not the speaker. And their point is valid: There is a wide "startup" belief that you needn't know the market or domain, the customers, etc. You just need to find a domain name and make a web page and customers will come and somehow a business will fall together. Only the overwhelming odds are that it will face likely failur…

Wait, what? I thought I was cynical about startups, but I've never noticed this wide belief that you can get a startup off the ground simply by standing up a web page.

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#60

Post by tptacek »

burgers wrote: post #13

> even if your company isn’t tech-heavy (such as Dinnr). I feel like this would be a giant red flag to me. You are essentially a logistics startup, and you believe this is not "tech-heavy". Logistics is likely one of the most complicated tech-heavy problems being solved right now. Things like pricing(30% margins in grocery food sounds very high), recommendations etc. Was there ever a way for food bloggers to have the…

I think this is probably wrong; it's part of the playbook of early logistics companies that they can start with an Excel spreadsheet. What's important is that you find a market. ZeroCater seems to have found one, but Dinnr chose a value proposition that was way too niche-y to succeed.
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