Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds like you actually largely agree with SomeCallMeTim. His point above is that solving Education is a Big Problem that has many non-trivial issues involved (entrenched interests, low budgets, slow purchase cycles, etc.), yet he "still wants to try." You make the point that the "industry is not welcoming for entrepreneurs", but at the same time, you are running an education start-up, which suggests to me that y…
As I just mentioned in another response, you should look at Sudbury Schools [1] for inspiration on how education should work. The entire current educational system is based on creating interchangeable docile workers for manufacturing jobs. What we need moving forward are creative, intelligent, and self-motivated individuals who will create value in a service/information economy. I just listened to a story on public r…
The Unexotic Underclass
301–309 of 309 posts
Re: The Unexotic Underclass
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm a "believer" in TGITP as you say it. It is not based on "blatant self-interest" but on moral principles (don't harm people, don't take their stuff, etc). So how does that work when the government is the one preventing people from hurting people and taking their stuff? How does that square with the fact you can hurt people and deprive them of things without doing the kind of stuff NAP fundamentalists rail agains…
"The government is preventing people from hurting people" is not a binary assertion, but a spectrum. An agency can have a success rate of 20% at preventing violence (in which case they are lousy at it) or they can have a 70% or 80% rate or higher and so on. So sure, the government is preventing people from hurting people at some particular rate. Your question is, how can we make sure people don't hurt other people if…
So... are you an anarchist, or just a big fan of small governments? :) I ask because I've seen people who essentially define anarchism as "direct democracy in a town hall model", which is still a government, but try getting them to see that.
Anyway, one problem with this approach is the small government that isn't as small as your government and decides to take you over by force. And then keeps going until it's a large government again, and nobody who disagrees too loudly is left to complain.
Another problem is, well, what if one small government isn't expansionist, but is basically North Korea? Nobody leaves alive, nobody complains and lives, and nobody but the oligarchs has a say in government.
> If everyone likes me then now we're all the more empowered as a town to go on strike and advocate that the company change their hiring policy. But let's say the town hates me, I'm a terrible person. I can try to redeem myself in the eyes of my town by providing services to my townsfolk, slowly building up enough savings to perhaps move out of town.
How about this: Some people like you, but not enough. If they strike, or demonstrate, my police forces kill them and everyone else goes back to work, suitably chastened. My company takes a small hit, but compliance among the workforce is more important to my bottom line than not killing your supporters.
Also: Your plan to scrape up enough resources to leave is overly-optimistic, especially given how much of a following the KKK had in some towns in the 1920s. Do you know what a "sundown town" was?
> I've tried my best to honestly answer your questions. If I haven't addressed your core concerns I invite you to rephrase and we can try again. :)
I do appreciate your honesty. I'm also trying to be honest in this, and to explain myself well.
My core concern is this: We tried it your way, more or less, back in the Gilded Age, a time of big companies largely untroubled by governmental regulations of any kind and local governments largely left alone by state and Federal actions. Why do you think going back to that would not cause a return to the serious social and economic problems the Gilded Age had?
Re: The Unexotic Underclass
#303Re: The Unexotic Underclass
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
One other thing here: credit. It relates to #5, but drastically increases the cost of doing business. The "unexotic underclass" tends to not be very prompt at paying their bills. They often don't have credit cards (or even enough credit to get one), so the typical billing mechanisms are out of the question. Things get prioritized, and a lot of people will choose to let their bills go to collections before they pay th…
>There's a reason nobody goes after the "underclass" at any scale There are plenty of companies that go after the underclass at scale - things like "no bank needed" debit cards, prepaid phone cards, payday loansharks, western union-style money transfer businesses, public transport companies etc.
Even cable, America's biggest luxury addiction, has some trouble obtaining payment.
However what I'd like to see far more is a systemic solution. Instead of permatemps, part time workers, new hire probation (sort of), or even wellfare, 'unemployment' should mean more like a new deal program. There will be something for all workers to do, preferably in/near their training. If there is not, based on aptitude, retraining will be subsidized while more generic work is scheduled around the training. All initial hires/temps/etc will be paid for at full pro-rated cost (but less inherent risk/mutual solidity) by companies in question. The government will also pass on only a discounted rate of payment (but full benefits otherwise) to encourage the worker to land a job outside of the support system.
Re: The Unexotic Underclass
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm impressed by the number of commenters who didn't realise the author is a woman. >There are no end of problems to solve in the world, but only a very few of them are profitably solved. They're (not) profitably solved because the economic and political systems have been designed to make them unprofitable. The basic problem is a feedback system which rewards certain activities as 'profitable' and punishes others as…
> They're (not) profitably solved because the economic and political systems have been designed to make them unprofitable. Not so, and even if it were, that would only further underscore the fact that you still can't solve them with capitalism. The author is effectively recommending that the local high school football team get out there and fix homelessness in the city. The best you can hope for is that they'll provi…
No it isn't. There's no such thing as 'markets' and it's sloppy thinking to believe there is. What we have have is a political system that uses a stylised propaganda framework to propagate and reinforce itself - much as the Church did in the middle ages.
Belief in 'markets' as some kind of metaphysical efficient all-but omniscient decision-making entity is central to that, in some segments of the population - just as belief in Church dogma used to be equally pervasive.
The reality from anthropology is that there's nothing inevitable about trade or markets at all. Some cultures don't have any concept of a 'market', or if they do, trade is a peripheral activity, and certainly not used as a tool for centralised decision making.
>you can't dictate to people what they should want or not want, because they won't listen to you.
Which is why advertising is such a huge industry, and all governments use propaganda?
It's actually incredibly easy to dictate what people want. What's hard is creating an educated and informed population capable of original, independent, creative thought and high-quality long-term strategy.
Using the many available tools of persuasion to direct the thinking of a majority of the population isn't difficult at all.
If you believe your culture doesn't do this, it's possible you may not have asked some hard questions about how it works.
Re: The Unexotic Underclass
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
My parents eventually made "millionaire" status on real estate investments. And you're 100% right. The reason my parents did well is that: a) Few people (at the time) knew about tax and bank auctions b) At the time both kinds of auctions required that you show up and pay in cash equivalent . They had a worker's comp settlement that allowed them to invest in properties where others didn't have the cash. Now banks tend…
So not exactly a "guarantee" that you'll be "a millionaire in a year" then?
Though I have to say that I'm now investing in real estate, based on my own observations of the area I live now, but I'm not taking a buy-and-flip approach. Instead I'm trying buy-and-make-12%-ROI-on-rent. The rental market is extremely tight here. But it's not going to make me a millionaire in a year.
Re: The Unexotic Underclass
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
"agenda": The word you use when you want to dismiss someone's issues without actually addressing them. Most of your questions are answered here: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/01/richard... "Why does she have a child?" News for you: Sometimes people's circumstances can change. It's impossible to be sure you're income will be stable for 20 years.
I was actually surprised when I read the summary, because that would be a surprising level of poverty in the US. If anything, we are unnecessarily generous with the food stamps here. (Which I am not necessarily complaining about, just observing that they are relatively easy to get.) And lo, it turns out this was in Britain, so saying they can't afford $44 is sort of deceptive. I well believe she couldn't afford £44.…
Go to a city. Any notable city. Detroit, Flint, Chicago, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Columbus. You'll see plenty of poverty, if you spend just five minutes to look for it.
http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/01/05/poverty-map/ click "Number Living in Poverty" and then look at the midwest. It's everywhere. Every major city, and a number of rural areas (Tippecanoe County, Isabella County, Allen County, etc)
There's poverty all over the Midwest. If you don't see it, you aren't looking very closely.
Re: The Unexotic Underclass
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The major problem is that people who need to learn something are by definition the least able to evaluate what they need. I have to respectfully but firmly disagree with this assertion. Kids are born to learn. They seek out experiences that involve learning, and they lap it up voluntarily when given the chance. School, as it's currently designed, does its best to remove all of the natural fun from learning. Read abo…
I was thinking more of adult education, the same principle applies to children. Socrates had the example that if schoolboys could choose their teachers, they would elect the pastry chef. Just focusing on the adult education market, it is extremely clear that the most well-known educational products are those associated with non-educational marketing factors: institutional prestige (MOOCs), television advertising (Ros…
Socrates also basically invented the strawman argument as an educational tool.
Read about Sudbury Schools. Not only do kids choose to really learn, they don't all pick the modern equivalent of pastry chef.
Re: The Unexotic Underclass
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
"The government is preventing people from hurting people" is not a binary assertion, but a spectrum. An agency can have a success rate of 20% at preventing violence (in which case they are lousy at it) or they can have a 70% or 80% rate or higher and so on. So sure, the government is preventing people from hurting people at some particular rate. Your question is, how can we make sure people don't hurt other people if…
> Your question is, how can we make sure people don't hurt other people if there's no government. Well, let's say we all live in this city. Do we want a police force? If we do, we can fund one and have it. Then it will protect us. Same as current taxes for police forces, only at local level. It's no different than having tinier countries. Switzerland is tiny and peaceful and they have a police force but they also hav…
> one problem with this approach is the small government [...] then keeps going until it's a large government again People would only allow to be governed with explicit contracts and insurance in place. This gets into dispute resolution, which I'm still studying, but there are definitely ways to set incentives in place so that "becoming a large government" becomes a terrible course of action (economically, not just nominally and flexibly as is with law today).
> If they strike, or demonstrate, my police forces kill them You can't initiate force in a libertarian society, or you will be inviting problems/conflicts. It's not economically advantageous to wage wars in a free society, so this won't be chosen often. The reason people go to war is because they want to make money selling weapons. This model only works with fiat money (historically, as wars are usually much more expensive than anyone could pay for). Real money can't pay for wars. Wars are really expensive.
Sundown towns were an explicit death threat to people who did not initiate force.
> We tried it your way, more or less, back in the Gilded Age I'm reading a lot about the Gilded Age now and I'd really emphasize your "more or less". There was a lot of government meddling in the market at the time (railroads: government land grants and subsidies; in 1873 the Coinage Act demonetized silver [this is a huge intervention], which raised interest rates [artificially, which is why it's bad], which contributed to the first "Great Depression" until 1879). And that's not even the beginning of government interventions within 1860-90.
The Gilded Age is not an example of the free market. I'm looking at Celtic Ireland for something more like it.