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The Unexotic Underclass

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Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#111

Post by jrochkind1 »

disjointrevelry wrote: post #104

The article boils down to a basic fact: "The unexotic underclass are unexploitable." Despite all the dancing around this fact, it pops out in the article like a pimple on an ivy leaguing debutant's nose in their weekly dermotalogist face cleansing. There is more than a hint of the populist a. randist philosophy throughout this article. Maybe this is a cult, and it goes without saying. The privileged group (such as th…

I think you are rough on the author -- the author doesn't know they're complaining that the underclass is unexploitable -- they actually believe that 'entrepeneurs' can help the 'underclass' by selling them the right products, if only they'd try harder.

The author diagnoses the disease, but their prescription, 'innovating' new things to sell to the underclass (whether in the first or third world) -- will never cure it.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#112

Post by tinco »

wolfgke wrote: post #89
tinco wrote: post #76

I would really love to cater to the unexotic underclass, but how? I mean he goes on and on about how much opportunity there is, but I don't see it. I know how to get 500 white liberal suburbanite young males to pay me $10 per month. They have the money and they love to spend it on tech and gadgetry that makes their lives even more comfortable. But single house mothers? Poor Romanians? How would I even get them to pay…

> I imagine them needing to spend money on food, accepted > education, There is so much educational stuff available on the internet and public libraries that I can't see a reason why there is a lot money to spend on. > housing Accepted > and entertainment. May I tell you something: As a graduate student I have so much work to do that I hardly have any time for entertainment. Thus rather little money is spent on it. C…

> May I tell you something: As a graduate student I have so much work to do that I hardly have any time for entertainment. Thus rather little money is spent on it. Could this be a hint for curbing the expenses for this kind of people?

No, it is a hint that you are making the wrong choices in life.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#113

Post by sirsar »

rattray wrote: post #54
cbd1984 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some problems aren't best solved through technology, or through "people caring", but simply through better governance. And here you run up against a religious belief named "The Government Is The Problem", which is utterly intractable and ineradicable in someone with an advanced case, and will never die off because it's founded on either blatant self-interest (A regulatory body is harming my profits!) or soured opti…

I can't tell if you're accusing me of this religious belief or not, since I framed this as "the government is (could be) the solution" - a rather opposite attitude to the one you described. There are many sorts of cynical, overly sour people. The kind you describe is certainly one of them. But I don't see the relevance of their existence?

They are relevant because they control a large part of Congress.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#114

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

vinceguidry wrote: post #36

I'm not really understanding the author's position. He seems to think the point of business is to solve problems rather than turn a profit. There are no end of problems to solve in the world, but only a very few of them are profitably solved. You can't keep going without profit. If you want to solve a social problem, you need the tools of social policy, which can bring enough resources to bear that you can afford to…

I'm impressed by the number of commenters who didn't realise the author is a woman.

>There are no end of problems to solve in the world, but only a very few of them are profitably solved.

They're (not) profitably solved because the economic and political systems have been designed to make them unprofitable.

The basic problem is a feedback system which rewards certain activities as 'profitable' and punishes others as 'unprofitable'.

Nothing about this is impossible to change. It's a political choice, not a scientific law.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#115

Post by tinco »

graeme wrote: post #108
rwallace wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point. Maybe the answer is, instead of trying to sell something to the poor, look for a way to enable the poor to sell a service to the rich? I mean, two of the biggest success stories in the recent startup scene are Airbnb and Uber. What do they do? Provide a way for people who don't have much money but do have a useful asset (a spare room, a car, respectively) to make a bit of extra cash selling a service to t…

Unfortunately, this is the future. I say unfortunately, because I think if we could see the final version, we'd recoil. The sharing economy, at heart, is about the monetization of spare capacity. So far it's mostly been physical assets, but spare time is next. Anywhere you find a poor person watching TV (or, god forbid, reading a book) there's spare capacity ready to be monetized. And, why are they sleeping so much?…

I agree that a future where millions live in poverty, working insane hours for minimal wages is repulsive and definitely the sort of thing that the next generation of web services might bring closer.

But this future is going to come anyway, in the near future automation and centralization of production are only going to increase, leading to much increased joblessness.

The only way we can combat that is if more wealth leaks down from the top, be it through labor services or social government.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#116

Post by tinco »

gambiting wrote: post #90
tinco wrote: post #76

I would really love to cater to the unexotic underclass, but how? I mean he goes on and on about how much opportunity there is, but I don't see it. I know how to get 500 white liberal suburbanite young males to pay me $10 per month. They have the money and they love to spend it on tech and gadgetry that makes their lives even more comfortable. But single house mothers? Poor Romanians? How would I even get them to pay…

You don't get the money from them, that's the point. You build a system that helps them,and then sell it to the government or any organisation which has the money to pay for it. You get your money, and they get the help they need.

What do the government or organisations which have the money get out of it?

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#117

Post by delg »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #60
rattray wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. VC's fund companies that target markets that can be served by VC-fundable companies. And most young entrepreneurs from top schools hear that it's easiest to Get Rich Quick by founding a VC-funded company. But those aren't the only kinds of companies worth building, and "young entrepreneurs from top schools" aren't the only people who can build good companies. We shouldn't look to them (err, ourselves) as "hum…

Agree with the "young entrepreneurs from top schools" bit. Going to a top school doesn't correlate with being a good entrepreneur. It maybe correlates with intelligence and drive, but more closely correlates with privilege and connection. There's an interesting correlation between immigrants and entrepreneurship (old-school building a profitable business entrepreneurship, not SV-type scaling an unprofitable business…

These are some interesting insights, but I wonder: can "bootstrapped" businesses really tackle big problems? Part of the frustration with SV isn't just the kinds of "problems" they're "solving," but also that they're taking up all the oxygen (read: funding capital) that, if applied differently, could fix more meaningful problems.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#118

Post by king_jester »

callmeed wrote: post #62

To those who commented on the financial or regulatory hurdles in serving these people: Maybe another way to look at this is: instead of creating a startup to serve veterans or single mothers–why not create a startup that can employ veterans AND single mothers ? One of the biggest problems facing single mothers is the high cost of childcare. In many instances, it makes going to work almost pointless because it eats 50…

> Maybe another way to look at this is: instead of creating a startup to serve veterans or single mothers–why not create a startup that can employ veterans AND single mothers?

An even better question is, why aren't businesses and start-ups today employing veterans and single mothers?

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#119

Post by thathonkey »

rattray wrote: post #35
patio11 wrote: post #15

I like parts of this article more than others. For example, while I share a certain sense of frustration that SV seems to spend a disproportionate amount of resources on mobifotosocialgames, smartphones and their downmarket progeny are an enormous quality-of-life improvement for broader America. There's virtually nothing a cash-poor-responsibility-rich person needs to do that having a smartphone does not make them be…

Agreed. VC's fund companies that target markets that can be served by VC-fundable companies. And most young entrepreneurs from top schools hear that it's easiest to Get Rich Quick by founding a VC-funded company. But those aren't the only kinds of companies worth building, and "young entrepreneurs from top schools" aren't the only people who can build good companies. We shouldn't look to them (err, ourselves) as "hum…

This isn't a slight on you(r post) but I just wanted to point out that nobody (at least nobody outside of the startup/tech world) believes that SV is a savior of humanity, much less the only savior.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#120

Post by facepalm »

jonrimmer wrote: post #88
facepalm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live, many landlords prefer tenants who are on welfare. The state pays their rent, so it's practically guaranteed. So I think single mothers might be a lucrative market. Especially if you can get the foot into the door for some government contract. Another data point: I think Warren Buffet got rich with Coca Cola and chocolate bars? That's basically selling crap to the poor.

The government being a lucrative market isn't the same as single mothers being a lucrative market. And yes, you can make money from an underclass by exploiting people's weaknesses for sugar, fast food, gambling, alcohol, drugs etc. But then you're not solving their problems, you're adding to them.

Sure, I wouldn't want that. But it shows you can sell stuff to the poor and make a profit. If you can sell them crap, it seems likely you could also sell them useful things.

The mothers: where I live the single moms are often on welfare (at least the media says so), that's why I thought of the government. Because the government feeds them directly. So if you could convince the government that every mother needs X (I don't know, free baby bottles because research has shown kids teeth deteriorate because poor moms don't buy bottles often enough bla bla bla), you would be on your way to a government contract of sorts.

The point is that if they are a big enough group, and you provide something they need, you can make money (I suppose).

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