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I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

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Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#181

First of all - wow, what a talented writer. No wonder her clients have done so well. Forgery of college admissions essays is rampant not just in China but also in the US (and I suspect in many other places), but actually the problem is really much worse than that. With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - tellin…

Exactly but I see nothing wrong with this. If universities are willing to accept students not based on merit but on a touching story, then they had it coming. People who admit one to these universities in general are not alumni of that school, did not go through the same experience and are not experts in the subject one wants to study. It is ludicrous to expect them to differentiate good candidates from bad ones. Als…

We have an extreme case of the merit system here in India. Students who are trying to get into the IITs are judged solely on a composite score of their IIT entrance test results + school final exam results.

There are many 'coaching centres' all over the place that aim to teach students how to crack the entrance test. Students pretty much spend 3 hrs/day at these coaching centres, and more during the weekends. When I was in school, you had to pass an entrance test just to get into these coaching centres. Now, they even target younger kids from 8th grade onwards.

Unfortunately, all of this just distorts meritocracy in a different way. Obviously, these coaching centres are very expensive, and their students come from families that can afford it. These students get upto 4 years of coaching to teach them to pass the entrance tests. A poor, but intelligent student (who probably attends a sub-par school) does not have access to facilities like this and is at a disadvantage compared to his/her less intelligent peers.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 80% of American households earn less than $100k and if 80% of the students got their education for free that wouldn't work out well for the universities. Actually, it would work out just fine (for top-tier universities). They can easily survive on the investment returns from their endowments, along with donations from wealthy alumni.

Then why don't they offer all their programs for free? It would be very good pr and they would get many more donations.

Because they don't have to? Their goal isn't to create good PR, its to cement themselves as a rite of passage for the wealthy, intelligent, and influential. They don't really care what the plebs think about them, they just want to make sure that the select few coming from lower or middle class backgrounds but have the abilities necessary to move up in society are interested in attending their school. And those people are generally aware of the financial aid situation, or will at least apply and then find out about the financial aid situation if they're accepted.

Also, removing the tuition would make them look cheap to their target audience. In reality, a significant majority of students do end up getting financial aid. It just has to be indirect, so it doesn't harm the school's reputation.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#183
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly but I see nothing wrong with this. If universities are willing to accept students not based on merit but on a touching story, then they had it coming. People who admit one to these universities in general are not alumni of that school, did not go through the same experience and are not experts in the subject one wants to study. It is ludicrous to expect them to differentiate good candidates from bad ones. Als…

We have an extreme case of the merit system here in India. Students who are trying to get into the IITs are judged solely on a composite score of their IIT entrance test results + school final exam results. There are many 'coaching centres' all over the place that aim to teach students how to crack the entrance test. Students pretty much spend 3 hrs/day at these coaching centres, and more during the weekends. When I…

Whatever we do, the elite of a generation from now will consist largely of the children of the current elite. The path to the good life is challenging because there is a lot of competition, good advice and careful preparation help a lot in getting there, and the people in the best position to provide that advice and preparation are the ones who have already made it.

But I do think we can tune the parameters a bit. We can make sure that everyone has access to decent-to-good education, so the talented poor have a fighting chance. We can make the admissions based on some reasonable proxies of ability so the biggest boneheads among the sons of privilege get sorted out. And we can make the system as transparent as possible, so everyone knows what is expected.

With that in mind, I think the current system in the US fails pretty hard on the first criterion -- the worst schools are just awful. It could also improve on the third; what the elite colleges are looking for in admissions, such as "service", isn't at all obvious.

My sense is that the US has constructed a very complicated system that in the end delivers pretty much the standard result. A simpler, clearer system based on plain tests, such as India's, just might be a better solution in the end.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#184
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really sad when you think about it. It implies, on average, our minimum viable college students go into education. Not our best and brightest. Who ends up being the majority of the people teaching our children? Probably those same people.

I agree this is sad. On the other hand however one needs to consider how much is really lost this way. Given the inefficiency/pointlessness of much of the effort involved in compulsory education, I'm not sure better teachers would be able to significantly improve the system. We need a structural change here first, and only then start to look around for brigther people. Otherwise, any bright people that may enter the…

Another way to put it, is the problem is located in the area of "Education - Administration" not front line teachers.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#185
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to Georgia Tech, which is considered a difficult school (though I personally believe it is not as tough as Berkeley). The most difficult part was that you had exams and assignments in several subjects at once. Life would have been really easy if we had just one class per semester; most of the individual papers weren't extraordinarily difficult. A couple of days research sounds reasonable for about 50% of the a…

This is different from any university how?

I think his point is that the "master of manipulation" at Berkeley was able to get satisfactory work from people who didn't even have a college degree only because they didn't have enough to simultaneously work on multiple assignments (and could therefore dedicate a lot of time to one assignment). So the difference between one of them and a good college student is just the throughput, rather than a fundamental difference in the ability to complete the assignment in the first place.

However, I don't agree with that comparison in one respect - you typically have plenty of flexibility in college with regards to when you actually complete the assignment. You get it weeks in advance, allowing you to plan things out meticulously, if you're that sort of person.

And this is true - I remember people from college like this. They didn't have the raw brainpower or intelligence that you might expect of a typical high achieving student, but they made up for it with superior time management skills and perennial self discipline.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#186
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ideas and work product are the ideas and work product of the organization, which your superiors represent... different kettle of fish.

I had a friend who got her degree from UC Berkeley, and maybe wrote 5-10% of her work, she had other people (Friends, Lovers, colleagues) write all the others - she was a master of manipulation. Who is to say that the valuable skill she developed wasn't her delegation and management skills, and that those were far more important in the long term than her ability to wax poetically about Plato's Republic? The fact that…

>> Who is to say that the valuable skill she developed wasn't her delegation and management skills, and that those were far more important in the long term than her ability to wax poetically about Plato's Republic?

Nobody. It's likely a highly useful skill. However she should not have a degree as she didn't do the work.

It's pretty simple.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#187
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idealistically, these aren't things that you're "supposed" to do. You're not supposed to live your life to get into good schools. Admissions counselors will tell you this explicitly. They want you to what you would normally do, and if you happen to be exceptional, they'll pick you. You should also never assume that you or your child actually has any business being academically exceptional. That's just statistical fac…

That is absurd on at least two levels. First of all, I really do not get "you are not supposed to prep for standardized tests" attitude. You prepare for graded exams in school, if you prepare for them you get better grades. But, for some weird reason, I should not prepare for ACT, although that one is much more important for future? If I will train writing essays within 20 minutes I will get better score then if I do…

A school that explicitly stated they only want the kids of the upper classes could just say they want rich white kids, but they'd be savaged in the media for admitting the truth.

So instead there's tons of handwaving about how the most important predictor of success in life and in education is experience in the sailing club and the polo club and the chess club. Not because its true, but because mostly rich white kids are in those clubs so if you select those groups you'll get the "right" people wrt race and income.

The problem is someone fakes their social life and interests to get into school, if they make it they're going to be surrounded by a weird mix of genuine upper class kids who really did grow up enjoying sailing and playing polo, and a subgroup (perhaps too small to be self sustaining and supportive) of poseurs who don't care about that stuff other than a means to an end.

There is an analogy in software hiring practices. Obviously everyone knows from studies that higher IQ people are more successful. But implementing IQ tests is a legal minefield. Smart people can learn algos. So google does or used to torture applicants with algo questions. They're not looking for people who know all about red black trees or implying that all jobs there use algos, but are selecting people who passed the "IQ test that isn't an illegal IQ test" filter. "cargo cult" copycat companies who do almost the same but miss the intelligence test part, perhaps by asking brainteasers or similar tasks that don't require intelligence, are comical.

The moral of the story, is if you want to do something wrong or immoral or highly politically incorrect, you can get about the same outcome by playing games with overlapping venn diagrams and pretend that a right, moral, popular activity with a large overlap is what you "really" want. A large part of adult/older human cultural interaction is understanding when someone's talking exoterically or esoterically in order to respond correctly.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#188
One of my Filipino friends was doing this sort of work. She did it well and got paid well but she finally quit over ethical concerns. I would find it incredibly entertaining if customer records ever leaked ;) although there'd be no way to authenticate them.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#189
post #5

I have several friends here in Brazil that were accepted in top USA MBAs. All of them are very smart, but all of them hired a consultant to help with admission process. No one hired a ghost writer, all of them wrote their own essays, but in all cases the consultant asked them to rewrite 5 or 6 times, at least. There it is where it seems to exist the ethical line: ghost writer, no good; rewrite yourself until every si…

"rewrite yourself until every single sentence is exactly like the ... wants, good."

Change the ... to "HS teacher" or "professor" or "TA" and this is a good summary of a writing class.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#190
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really sad when you think about it. It implies, on average, our minimum viable college students go into education. Not our best and brightest. Who ends up being the majority of the people teaching our children? Probably those same people.

Yup, it's an acknowledge problem (though most politicians avoid coming out an admitting that most teachers aren't very bright). Considering where education falls in the pay spectrum for college graduates (near the bottom), it should be no surprise that our "best and brightest" go in to tech, finance, and consulting—never education.

This. I love working with students (am a TA while doing my grad degree in engineering) and volunteered with elementary and middle school children in the past, but unless you can get close to my engineering salary (at least 100k/year) I'm not going to switch to teaching as a career.
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